Sam Alaimo: 00:03

This is the No Bell podcast where we talk about how to optimize your technology, life, and mind. We're joined by special operations veterans, entrepreneurs, investors, and others who have overcome difficulty to make it to the top of their craft by staying in the fight. Welcome to the No Bell podcast. This Sam Alaimo. I'm joined by Rob Huberty, and our guest today is Otis McGregor, founder of Tribe and Purpose.

Sam Alaimo: 00:32

He's an author, a speaker, a podcast host, and a retired lieutenant colonel in the army special forces. Otis, welcome.

Otis McGregor: 00:39

Hey. Great to be here guys. Happy to share some of my experience to help others.

Sam Alaimo: 00:45

Stoked to have you. We'll start where we always do. Where did you grow up?

Otis McGregor: 00:49

I grew up in Texas. Grew up in Fort Worth. I went to Texas A and M and the corps cadets and had all kinds of good fun that would get get you arrested now. Fortunately, my timing was was just right for the things I got to do and and did. I enlisted in the guard while I was a cadet.

Otis McGregor: 01:10

I was a tank driver somewhere behind me. If you look really hard and mixed in with the books right there, that's the forty ninth Armored Division patch, lone star. I was a tank driver for about a year and a half, and then I was a TC, tank commander. And then I became a I switched and became a LRSU. Not many people know what LRSU, long range reconnaissance surveillance.

Otis McGregor: 01:35

It's the the recce team for the armored division. And I did that my last year before getting commissioned.

Sam Alaimo: 01:42

Did the coracadettes, what was your earliest memory of wanting to join the military?

Otis McGregor: 01:46

Well, you know, my dad was a aerospace engineer at General Dynamics right up right next to Carswell Air Force Base outside of Fort Worth. I think it's now Naval Air Station Carswell. And I grew up in the Cold War era of watching the b 50 two's fly over and going to bomb the Soviet Union out of existence. And then thankfully getting a phone call to return home. And I always dreamed of being a fighter pilot, because that's what my dad as an aerospace engineer, that's what he designed.

Otis McGregor: 02:19

His first big project was the f 16. And as a kid, I got to sit in the f 16 and do all these kind of cool stuff. And my freshman year in high school, I went to dad's office there at home I said, dad, I wanna be a fighter pilot. And he said, son, you can't. I said, why not?

Otis McGregor: 02:41

He said, well, you wear glasses. Pilots aren't allowed to wear glasses. And I said, well, I'll just join the air force. He's like, you don't want to do that. You're not a pilot in the air force, you ain't shit.

Otis McGregor: 02:52

Dad didn't say shit, dad doesn't cuss. But whatever phrase he said, you ain't gonna get anywhere and you won't like it unless you're a pilot in the air force. I said, fine. I kind of hung my head and walked out and next day I said, I got it. I'll join the army, screw the air force.

Otis McGregor: 03:10

And that was that was what set me on that path and that's why I ended up at Texas A and M because, you know, the interesting thing when I reflect back on it, those those choices made early on, I had no desire to go to the military academy. Even though I was dead set, dad had dad had said, don't enlist, go to school. Dad's very big on education. Go to school, get your education, go in as an officer. And he's, you know, guided me in that path.

Otis McGregor: 03:37

And I never even looked at West Point. Was something about everything being the same at West Point, right? Whereas Texas A and M, you're a small fish in a big pond even as a cadet. You know, you're 2,000 and when I was at A and M there was 30,000 students. So 2,000, do the math there, whatever that equates to, 10% or less of the student body.

Otis McGregor: 04:05

So it was a much broader education. And that was also what led me to enlisting was I wanted to learn what being a soldier was like before I led soldiers. So yeah, that's that was how I got there. That's how I got there. The only other school I applied to was Penn State, because I thought I was gonna play a linebacker form or something like that, I don't know.

Rob Huberty: 04:27

I have a couple questions about the the differences. So one of my close friends in the military went to Texas A and M and he was not part of the corps of cadets and he ended up enlisting out of it as well. What was it like going to a college that presumably is good at football, good at sports, big fun school, but then you have to put a uniform on from time to time but not all the time. Whereas the service academies are buttoned up all the time. How different was that?

Rob Huberty: 04:56

Did you ever have that moment where you said, What am I doing here when you're wearing a uniform in the sun and you see people going out to a party and you're doing, you know, marching or whatever it is?

Otis McGregor: 05:05

You know, I don't recall ever having that feeling of looking on the other side and saying, oh, look how much it sucks. Yeah. And I think probably what it was, the reason I didn't have that feeling is because misery loves company. And I had my classmates with me. And it sucked for them just as much as it sucked for me standing in formation.

Otis McGregor: 05:26

We did morning formations and evening formations. We marched to chow, marched to breakfast, marched to dinner, know. I mean, we had to wear a uniform to every building on campus when I was there. There was no other than other than going to the PE class, you you could wear shorts and a t shirt every other time. Even to go like meet my girlfriend for coffee in the Memorial Student Center.

Otis McGregor: 05:53

I had to be in class b's to go into that building. So yeah, there were some times where, oh, this kind of sucks. But you you were there with you know, 2,000 of your closest mates who were doing the same stupid or really beneficial stuff like that, you know. Every I mean the traditions at A and M, they've they've changed of course, as times have changed. But the, you know, several of the things like wearing a uniform and teaching you how to wear a uniform, that's that's important, know, and taking care of your your room and having room inspections and all those sort of things that you do at a military academy.

Otis McGregor: 06:34

And to include study time required sitting at my desk my freshman and sophomore year, Sunday through Thursday night. I don't remember, I

Rob Huberty: 06:43

think it

Otis McGregor: 06:43

was like 07:30 to 09:30 or something like that. We had to be at our desk studying. But you know what? At 09:30 on Thursday night, I was meeting up with my girlfriend and we were going to the Dixie chicken and drinking pitcher beer, you know, pitchers of beer. So and then you get up in the next morning and run five miles with or whatever because you weren't supposed to do something according to the upperclassmen.

Otis McGregor: 07:08

And got the best of both worlds is the way I look at it. And that's why I went to A and M, to get the best of both worlds. I enlisted beginning of the spring semester my freshman year. I enlisted, yeah. And I went to basic training that summer.

Sam Alaimo: 07:24

Did did a lot of other guys do that or were you kind of

Otis McGregor: 07:27

an anomaly? Pretty much an anomaly. I had two upperclassmen and they were the ones that kind of singled me out and were my mentors growing up. They were juniors when I was a freshman. And Chris Blakas and Kenny Crawford, still stay in touch with them.

Otis McGregor: 07:46

And they were the ones, hey, we got this this National Guard unit, know, weekend a month, two weeks a year, you can make some extra beer money and there's this whole Montgomery GI bill thing and all this sort of stuff and get some extra money for for school and and guess what, you get to learn about being in the army. I was like, cool. I'm going to the army anyways, might as well start now. So yeah, that was how I got got into it. It's not like I I saw a commercial and said, oh, I should

Sam Alaimo: 08:16

do this. You enlisted. Did you have special forces in your mind's eye as a goal or did that just come about after your your days riding around in tanks?

Otis McGregor: 08:25

Yeah. When I was a tanker I realized I didn't want to be a tanker. I did not like the idea of driving around in a steel coffin. I could not wait to get my feet on the ground, that was why I went to Lursu because yes, I all I ever wanted to do, my four years at A and M was to be commissioned as an infantry officer and go to the Ranger Regiment. It's all I ever wanted to do.

Otis McGregor: 08:50

The army saw different, said we need engineers not infantry guys. And I happened to have a piece of paper that says engineer on it, unfortunately. At least that's the way I always joke about it is unfortunately, I have this piece of paper. So the army made me an engineer and all I could think of was well, how do I get into the Ranger Regiment? And as I as I started down my path, you know, after getting commissioned as an engineer and learning more about things in the army, I I'd heard we had a a master sergeant at at the school in the ROTC who was a Green Beret.

Otis McGregor: 09:26

And so I'd known, I'd heard of it, didn't know a whole lot. Started reading some books about it. And when I got commissioned as an engineer, it kind of sealed my path because I said, then I'm going Green Beret. I'm not. I had I had kinda had visions of it, go to the regiment, you know, spend some time in the regiment and then go Green Beret.

Otis McGregor: 09:45

But when I didn't get to go to the regiment, said, you know what, raise my hand, go be a Green Beret. And that's that's what did it, you know, because just wanted to be challenged, pushed, be part of the best.

Sam Alaimo: 09:59

What what year, what what time frame were you talking about here?

Otis McGregor: 10:02

Well I graduated from college in '87. And I I went to Alaska for four years, left Alaska well while in Alaska, I that's where I raised my hand to be a Green Beret. Left there in '92 and got got awarded my Green Beret in '94.

Sam Alaimo: 10:21

I'm trying to think timelines. So this was around the Mogadishu timeframe, did that inspire you, influence you at all?

Otis McGregor: 10:27

No. No, hardly knew anything about it. You gotta remember information at that time you read it, it was dropped off at your front doorstep. So you know, yeah I read like I said, I read a lot of books about special ops in Vietnam and that was really the gist of it. Damn, I'm trying to think, when what year was Moog?

Sam Alaimo: 10:47

Was that '90? Ninety '1 or '92,

Otis McGregor: 10:50

I think. Yeah. Ninety one, '90 '2. So I was yeah, I was already on the path. I'd already filled out the paperwork and and then selected to to go to selection at that point.

Otis McGregor: 11:05

Gulf War one happened while we were in Alaska, which I always laugh about when I think about it because pretty much everybody, I was in the sixth Infantry Infantry Division, I I was in the sixth Engineer Battalion. Pretty much everybody in the division was putting in a forty one eighty seven. For those of you who don't know, that's that's a general army, still exists, army document to request something different. And everybody was putting in forty one eighty seven's to be reassigned to the units that were going to the war. And our our division commander published a order letter or whatever the hell to write, you know, memorandum that said, anybody that submits a 04/1987 for transfer will receive an article 15, which is non judicial punishment.

Otis McGregor: 12:00

The you you call them the navy mask, captain's mask. Then we were told we were going to do critical infrastructure protection, which was one of the roles of sixth Infantry Division, at least back then. Which is the oil, all the oil wells and the pipelines and the pumping stations and all that stuff. And the company that owned it at the time, I don't remember who it was now, I wanna say Alaska, basically said, yeah, no thanks. So we're we protected the snow around Fairbanks from Saddam Hussein and I will say he did not get one single snowflake during that war.

Otis McGregor: 12:44

So we were highly successful.

Rob Huberty: 12:46

So even at this time though, the I'm, you know, from pop culture in an unextraordinary way, did John Wayne or Sylvester Stallone have any influence? Rambo or that? Because that came out before both of it, you know.

Otis McGregor: 12:59

Yeah. Oh hell yeah. I mean, Green Beret, John Wayne's movie, The Green Beret. Yeah. I mean, I gotta say my homage to him.

Otis McGregor: 13:08

I got a Green Beret statue that is John Wayne, you know, right right there on my shelf. And then of course, you know, first blood. Yeah. We're all wanting to jump off a cliff and bounce through a tree and then sew our arm back up with, you know, the canvas muscle shirt that we made ourself.

Rob Huberty: 13:30

He he could eat things that would make a billy goat puke. I don't know why but that works.

Otis McGregor: 13:34

Yeah. That was a classic and I'm sure, not that I I remember saying, you know, watching that. You know, I've got some friends, Greenberry friends that'll tell you, yeah, man, dad dad showed me that movie and I was I was hooked. I'm thinking, yeah, maybe I saw it. I mean, of course I've watched it.

Otis McGregor: 13:51

At this point in life, I've seen it a bunch, both of them. But was that a critical piece? I don't I don't remember. I think it was probably more the books that I read, you know, about the like those operations that went into Laos. Those guys that did that stuff, know, the a team operations that out in camps alone and unafraid, that was just some bad ass shit, man.

Otis McGregor: 14:14

I mean, what those boys did in Vietnam, know, a 12 man team, 10 man team, plop middle of jungle, That was some was some SF shit right there. We did a little bit of it in Afghanistan, but it was our our risk tolerance isn't high enough to do that kind of shit anymore.

Rob Huberty: 14:33

Those guys are cool. I'd you know, I read a lot of those books as well and was inspired by them, know, along with pop culture in in in your day. I don't remember what year Red Dawn came out, but for some reason as a kid.

Otis McGregor: 14:44

You know truthfully, that probably influenced me more. The unconventional warfare aspect of Red Dawn. Yeah, that's that's classic, especially now that I live in Colorado because, you know, I got a safe house up in the mountains. Anybody that that knows a thing or two should have a safe house up in the mountains.

Sam Alaimo: 15:02

When you look back from what you know now, you you didn't want the you didn't want West Point because it was hyper regimented. Are you glad you ended up with SF and not the Rangers given the personality distinction between the two?

Otis McGregor: 15:14

Oh hell yeah. You know, I will never admit it publicly that the army knew what it was doing, making me an engineer. But the experience I gained as a engineer lieutenant, I mean because I got to do some pretty cool stuff. My my platoon, the platoon I had for a little over a year, was the equipment platoon for the entire light infantry division. So I had several million, I don't remember what the count is nowadays, you know, $10.15, $20,000,000 worth of heavy equipment in a light infantry division, you know, from bulldozers to backhoes to bucket loaders, dump trucks.

Otis McGregor: 15:58

And I mean, every guy in my platoon drove a piece of equipment. I mean, there was there was no, you know, backups or any it was, you know, Private Smith owned that bulldozer. That was his bulldozer and the the stuff that we got to do up in the tundra, in the in the frozen tundra was amazing because you know, exercises for us as engineers were were a month long. But the actual FTX was usually like four or five days, maybe seven at the very most. Because we'd go out and set up, move the snow to open up the roads.

Otis McGregor: 16:39

Then the log guys would come, set up all the log stuff and we're still clearing roads, firing positions, and all this stuff. And then they the the maneuver elements would come out and they'd get set up and then they do the force on force exercise. And then they'd leave and then the logistics would leave and then we'd leave. And so when when we went to the field, was you know, we had an exercise I was in Alaska for four years and we had an exercise every January that the the week after New Year's we deployed. And so the experience that I got in cold weather, leadership, I mean harsh harsh living conditions and environment.

Otis McGregor: 17:20

Yeah. I mean I've lived in some shitholes but the conditions were never as harsh as they were that those four years in Alaska, you know, 40 below for ten days, seventy below. I mean, you name the the extremisms and you know, it's just a thing.

Sam Alaimo: 17:36

Yeah. What was the most striking aspect of Special Forces selection? Were you shocked by anything? Did anything give you a particularly hard time? Walk us through that.

Otis McGregor: 17:46

I'm trying to think selection. See, I I had this weird and I still do attitude of, alright, I'll just do the best I can. And selection was that. I I believe I'm a good team player and a decent leader. And when I went into selection, you know, it was it's a just another gut check.

Otis McGregor: 18:09

And you know, growing up playing sports, spending a lot I grew up as a boy scout, eagle scout. I mean hell, I was doing as a boy scout to jump back. We did a chicken survival weekend. Another one of those things that ain't happening anymore. You and a buddy were given a live chicken, you got a sleeping bag each and a peach can.

Otis McGregor: 18:32

Why we always said peach can, but peach can empty that you could put anything in that wasn't food. Tools, matches, aluminum foil and a live chicken. They dropped us off Friday night, hand us a map and said, be here Sunday morning for pancakes. 12 years old doing that shit. I mean, that I I started young and so when I when I went through selection, yeah, it was hard.

Otis McGregor: 18:56

No, not downplaying the you know, the effort of of the suckfest that selection is, you know, the lack of sleep. It fed you good. It it and just the physical effort and some button, some mental, but just the physical effort and you know, working with people. I I don't remember, know, yeah, Sandman, what was, and all that, and I can't remember the names of the other events that you would that we would do. It was just a thing to me.

Otis McGregor: 19:26

It was like, alright, this is what I gotta do to get to be what I wanna be. And that's the way I did it. You know, I can think of, you know, there was a in the cue course, when I went through, the officers were the only ones that did this this event called Troy Trek. And Troy Trek was a three to four day land nav in the Uwari Forest. And you had you didn't know how many points you were getting.

Otis McGregor: 19:55

You couldn't use roads of course because it's land navigation and the instructors were looking for you. And I loved that freaking event. I just was like, cool. I'm in the woods by myself. I gotta go from here to there.

Otis McGregor: 20:09

That's cool, man. What's next? And you know, shoot we lost like half our class in that in that event that all got recycled because they just they screwed up. You know, so those sort of things, yeah, I remember them but I don't I honestly don't remember like, oh man, I don't know if I'm gonna get there. I was stressed.

Otis McGregor: 20:29

Of course I was worried about doing it because you don't know what the answer is, right? I mean, you don't know what the answer is, how can you, you know, unless you're just one of them arrogant, cocky assholes, you you don't know, right? So you just have to give it your best and that was that was kind of the way I looked at it. Now if I if I had ended up with my buddies in that recycle pool, you know, the recycle truck driving down the road, yeah, that would have fucking sucked, man. Sorry about the cussing, but there's there's no doubt my attitude would probably be different about what Troy Trek was.

Otis McGregor: 21:02

But for me, was like, I was, Peter Rabbit, don't throw me in the briar patch.

Sam Alaimo: 21:08

That's the way I was. Given the timeline we're talking about here, where were you when nine eleven happened?

Otis McGregor: 21:14

I was here at tenth group at Fort Carson. I was the battalion s three. I had about a month or so ago prior to that, did a change in command of my company. And I was now the battalion s three when it happened and I I can remember the urge, the desire to do something. I think that was the most frustrating thing, just give us something to do.

Otis McGregor: 21:44

Give us something to do. I mean, packing, unpacking, training, guessing that well, we need to get arranged to do this or we need to get vehicles to do this or we should go, you know, rock in the mountains or we had no clue what to do. We just were doing something. And I'll always remember getting phone calls from our our brothers in fifth group asking us about what kind of mountain gear and cold weather gear and all this sort of stuff they should have to go into the mountains of Afghanistan and we're just sitting there going, I mean, we didn't get the call, you know. That's for once for once, the military, the the special ops community actually had something happen and stuck with the regional the regional expertise of the groups.

Otis McGregor: 22:36

So I thought, know, irony in hindsight, know, 20 later, twenty four, almost twenty four years later, how ironic that was that that's the one time because we had just finished years of doing Bosnia and Kosovo, know, I had deployed my company to Kosovo and had some unbelievable operations and things going on there that we did, which were at the time, know, we've know, goes around comes around because we were the fleshy tip of the spear for Bosnia and Kosovo and all the other groups were back going, man, tenth group's getting do all the cool guy stuff. Well then nine eleven happened and we get to sit here at Fort Carson and watch it on TV.

Sam Alaimo: 23:23

So I wanna get into post nine eleven, but how was that tour and what kind of action do you guys see?

Otis McGregor: 23:29

For for which one, I'm

Sam Alaimo: 23:29

sorry. Kosovo.

Otis McGregor: 23:31

Oh, I went there twice. So I went right when we I went as a information operations officer. That's a dark period of my career. The deployment wasn't, but the job and the organization I was in was. So I went there the first time right right when we set everything up, basically rolled in with the, you know, invasion unit, whatever the hell we were called.

Otis McGregor: 23:54

And then I went back with my company, my special forces company, Charlie Company two ten, and had an unbelievable time. I was I was commanding a task force that nowadays at least a colonel or a one star would be in charge of. I had my six ODAs. I had an ODA from the first battalion in Stuttgart. I had a platoon of SEALs and a ranger, the ranger regimental recon and a squad of Seabees all attached to my company with me in charge.

Otis McGregor: 24:35

And we had a great relationship with the ground commander, Colonel Close, brigade commander in Big Red One. And he trusted us a % to do the right thing and my guys would give me a brief. I would accept or deny the mission operation depending on what was going on and how, what they were requesting to do. And I would tell Colonel Close, this is what we're going to do. And he says, Roger that, tell me if you need anything.

Otis McGregor: 25:10

And then I'd send the slide deck, this is back in you know, the old days when a two two megabyte slide deck, you know, took two hours to get through an email. I'd send the slide deck for approval up to my boss at Socure, General Fuller, who's still a good personal friend of mine and he say he called me up and said, what do you think of us? I said, well here's some risks, sir. He said, you got it? I said, Roger that, sir.

Otis McGregor: 25:33

He said, okay. Execute. And we did. Jeez, I don't know how many different missions. We did recce missions and in into the border, into Serbia and things like that and and some other classified stuff that you know, pre nine eleven was the fleshy end of the spear.

Otis McGregor: 25:52

And yeah, so I always joke that you know, it goes around comes around. So when nine eleven happened and then the fifth group got the call, well they figured, well, tenth group, you got your turn.

Sam Alaimo: 26:04

What did your so you retired two thousand nine, nine eleven, two thousand one. How did that period in between go? How many times you you deploy? Where did you get to go? How kinetic was it?

Otis McGregor: 26:13

Yeah. Remember at that point, I was a senior senior guy. So, you know, as a special forces company commander, you're a major in o four. When I left group and went to Spacecom and then Northcom, space and when I was at Spacecom is when the Desert Storm two happened, the invasion part. And I got to watch that on some highly classified videos on a stupid exercise in Korea.

Otis McGregor: 26:40

Then I went over to Sakur and when I got to Sakur, because my bosses at NORTHCOM and SpaceCOM wouldn't let me deploy. So when I got to Sakur, the first thing I did, I went into my boss, I was in the J 5 shop. Went to my boss in the J 5 Shop who was an air force colonel. And he's like, yeah, sure man, but you really gotta check with a three. And I was like, easy money.

Otis McGregor: 27:05

Because the three, a good friend of mine, Mark Rosengard, we were a tenth group together. So I went in, told him, say, hey, I gotta get in the box, dude. I'm not I'm not gonna get out of the army with a war going on and never having been there. So got down there, got to do some pretty cool stuff working both sides of the fence with unit and and Belod and the special forces task force there in Belod. Doing some some good, I mean all staff stuff.

Otis McGregor: 27:36

Know, I I I tell people that yeah, I was deployed but the stuff I was doing, you know, while I wasn't sleeping in my bed at home and I worked eighteen, twenty hours a day and had a really good gym, right. And a decent shower, but other than that I was I was doing staff shit the whole time. And then I went back again, I don't know, a handful of months, I got a phone call. When you get a a phone call in Germany at about 08:00 at night with a DC number, you know, you answer it and you're like, okay, what's this? And you know, families all around, it's like, go to the go to the closet and talk and you know, a general was putting together a team to go to Baghdad and wanted me to be part of that team.

Otis McGregor: 28:27

And I always remember saying, well, can I say no? The the guy, the staff officer I was talking to, he's like, no. He's like, well then why didn't you just send me freaking orders, dude? Why are we making a big deal about this? Let's just just send me orders and I'll frickin' pack my stuff and we'll go.

Otis McGregor: 28:42

So I went back back down to Iraq and helped stand up. Our our our job was to stand up the Iraqi National Counterterrorism Force. But would would you have said no? No. Yeah.

Otis McGregor: 28:53

I just wanted to know if I could have, you know. You got do I get an option? Right? I mean, you gotta you gotta ask that question. Right?

Otis McGregor: 29:01

But no, of course not. Wouldn't have said no. I was still chomping at the bit. I mean, like I did for any other thing that ever happened in my career. It's like, send me

Rob Huberty: 29:11

Always chasing the war.

Otis McGregor: 29:12

Oh man, running to the sound of gunfire, right? Yeah. That was that was a really cool mission because we the the the genesis of it was a cocktail napkin. Much very much similar to when I came what was going on at the same time that I deployed to Iraq was we were standing up the NATO Special Operations Force. That's when Admiral McRaven was my boss.

Otis McGregor: 29:41

And that literally started with a cocktail napkin of what if we'd look like this sort of thing and that's where the NATO Special Operations, now headquarters started. And when I came back from Iraq, that's what I went into was that which meant I got to go to Afghanistan a couple of times to bring the tribes together. That was that was the way we looked at it because we had we had a handful of NATO guys, a handful of black ops, a handful of white ops, and our goal was to get everybody doing working together as a as a team. So, yeah, that was a that was a pretty cool mission. I I refer to that so, you know, one of the special forces missions other than direct action and unconventional warfare is foreign internal defense.

Otis McGregor: 30:32

And foreign internal defense is developing a host nation's capability to protect themselves. And when I was at NATO SOF, I referred to that as as doing my foreign internal defense at the doctorate level because I was in the three shop and I traveled around like a rock star with the admiral going to ministers of defense and you know, commanders of special operations around the the continent that, you know, after having done some you know, on the ground low lower lower level but you know, as a captain and up at the national level, that was some pretty cool stuff to get to do that.

Sam Alaimo: 31:15

I wanna get into what you're doing now because it sounds awesome. But before we wrap up the military, what was, let's say, the worst experience you had during your career and what was the absolute best experience you had?

Otis McGregor: 31:26

Worst was probably my own doing because I still reflect on and I use this as a as a leadership lesson. I had an NCO, you know, when I was a platoon leader, the army was transitioning from a thing they had, you know, spec five, spec six. They weren't hard striped because the army said you're you're a damn good bulldozer operator, but you're not a leader. Well, when I first came on active duty, they were just getting rid of that. And in the infamous way of the military, you know, if you have one day in rank longer than the guy next to you, you're in charge.

Otis McGregor: 32:06

And I had a guy who was one of my section sergeants that should have just kept the he shouldn't have ever had the the rockers, should have just been a spec six. Damn good equipment operator but not a leader. I had no desire to lead. And I fired I publicly berated him and fired him in front of the platoon at National Training Center out in California. And to this day, it was a great it's it's a great leadership lesson but I regret it.

Otis McGregor: 32:35

And for me, twenty five years, that's the worst thing. %. Best best was I was a team leader with a handpicked team. Team sergeant and I, Bill Cole, handpicked this team and we were ten months into being a team. We recently finished a six month deployment to Bosnia and we came back, we were a mountain team and we got a JCET joint combined exercise training, I think is what JCET stands for.

Otis McGregor: 33:07

Basically it's go train or train with or at some other country and we got to spend a month in Switzerland, just my team, with two Swiss army Bergfuhrers as our guides. And skiing, alpine training, avalanche training, goes went south, did rock climbing and just the most that one that one and then some stuff I got to do in Norway. Those two, unbelievable.

Rob Huberty: 33:41

Crack deals.

Otis McGregor: 33:43

Yeah. Yeah. You know, if you or I were if we were to say, hey, let's go to Switzerland and do this, easy 50 each. Easy.

Rob Huberty: 33:52

Every now and again you have a lucid moment in the military and you're like, they are paying me to do x. Like whatever that is, and I think everybody in the military has felt good about something and bad about something. You know, if you're pushing a broom or whatever, you're doing fire watch, like, my god, this is terrible. But every now and again you're staying at a five star hotel somewhere and you're like, how am I here?

Otis McGregor: 34:16

Yep. Oh, yeah. Well, when I was doing the NATO soft thing, had this vivid image. We we had dropped into we're flown into, not dropped into, flown into Athens. Greece and I'd never been to Greece before.

Otis McGregor: 34:29

And did all our meetings. We were only there for a night. And I remember it was a five star hotel. Get up to my room which was way up. I opened the windows and there's the Acropolis.

Otis McGregor: 34:39

I mean, all lit I was like, how am I here? You know? Probably a, you know, thousand dollar a night room or, you know, especially with a view like that. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Otis McGregor: 34:51

There's some I I had I had lots of those pretty cool moments. We could spend another hour me telling you some of the cool places and things I got to do in those situations.

Sam Alaimo: 35:01

So career wrapped up. We talk a lot about the transition here. A lot of our, you know, a lot of our company, a lot of the people we know pivoted from the military to the business world as you did. Did you think your transition after twenty years was difficult? If so, how?

Sam Alaimo: 35:18

And then do you have any major lessons learned you'd share with people going through it now?

Otis McGregor: 35:22

Oh yeah. Yeah. Transition wasn't hard. It was finding what I wanted to do that was hard because I didn't know. I I thought I thought get out, get a job.

Otis McGregor: 35:34

Work for a company like Lockheed Martin. Dad dad worked for Lockheed for a number of years. He was I remember telling him I got a job at Lockheed and he was excited for me. That job lasted ten months and I'll with you. And by the way, for the last five years, seven years, I have been coaching guys getting out.

Otis McGregor: 35:57

That's one of my givebacks to our veteran tribe, so I've gone through this many times. One of the best lessons that you could learn and I got told this by two of my former NCOs that I'm that I hired into NORTHCOM as GS guys. And those two lessons when you take the uniform off are you can quit and you can say no. You can quit your job anytime. There's no such thing as a two week notice.

Otis McGregor: 36:22

If you don't like it, walk your ass out. Wave to everybody and say, see y'all later and walk out. That's it. Because you know what? The sheriff ain't coming to arrest you for being AWOL.

Otis McGregor: 36:32

You're done. Walk out. There's no requirement. Don't stay in a job that sucks. That's number one.

Otis McGregor: 36:38

Number two, you get to say no because there's no such thing as a lawful order. There's no such thing as UCMJ. And if your boss says, hey Rob, I need you to go to this conference next week and your daughter's having a birthday party or you know what, you're just sick and tired of traveling and say no. Hey boss, don't want to do that. It doesn't fit in with me.

Otis McGregor: 37:01

Guess what? The worst he can do is fire you.

Rob Huberty: 37:03

There's a lot packed in with what you're saying that I'd see as a commonality that we do and that we've struggled with. So some of it is be careful for what you wish because you're in it and you're in the job that you think that you do that pays the money that you think that you deserve and the prestige that you think you require. And at some given point, it's like the, you know, the the frog in the pot of water and it gets hotter and hotter and hotter and you don't realize that you're in boiling water. And at some point you say, I'm supposed to be happy and I am absolutely not happy. So that is very real and when you've gone from from a world where you could be removed from your position, you could be shamed, but you're still gonna a paycheck in general.

Rob Huberty: 37:45

I mean, unless you, you know, do something illegal almost. Like for mid level performance, you know, if you're an elite person, you only perform high instead of unbelievably high. Like, you know, there's no repercussions. But in this world, if you're doing a job that doesn't align with you and you're unhappy, you probably should do something else and maybe for less money, maybe for more money. That is very difficult for veterans to understand particularly like when they're recently at that first two year block, four year block out.

Otis McGregor: 38:16

Well I worked for five different companies in seven years. The first seven years post retirement. And every one of them, right down to the very last one, I said to myself and I said to my hiring manager slash my my manager boss, this is what I'm gonna do for the next twenty, twenty five years until I retire, retire. Then every one of them at the ninety day mark, things just started to the the sexy was gone, the frustrations grew, you know, the the twenty five minute commute which was, no, that's not bad. Turn to, god, gotta freaking drive twenty five minutes to get there.

Otis McGregor: 38:52

Jeez, you know, and everything just started. That's why, you know, I I tell everybody if I hadn't learned those two lessons, quitting and saying no, I would be a mouth breather working at Northcom right now. Plus in between each of those jobs when I'd quit, I'd consult back to companies doing the exact same damn thing I was doing before. That's how much of a glutton for punishment I was.

Rob Huberty: 39:16

How do you know when to quit?

Otis McGregor: 39:17

When you can't take it anymore. You know, they're everybody's different. It's it's when you hit that point of I don't like this. I mean I had a job in the army, that that job I kind of alluded to when I when I went to Kosovo, thank God. That's probably what kept me in the army, is because I deployed.

Otis McGregor: 39:35

If I had stayed in that in that organization, I would have I would have resigned. I I it was awful, you know. Because one of the things I tell guys is there's no such thing as a work life balance, it's all life. There's no work you, home you. And if you believe that, you're you're lying to yourself.

Otis McGregor: 39:55

Because that job in DC that I had, I saw it. I was so frustrated in that role and in that organization, how dysfunctional it was that it carried over to the home life. And made it tough on my wife and kids. Tougher than being deployed. It was like, why are you still home because this sucks.

Otis McGregor: 40:16

Let's get out of this. And and and truthfully that that was miss Suzanne, my wife's advice was, well why don't you see if you can get back to tenth group? We can go back to Colorado and see if you still like the army then. That's that's what saved kept me, saved me. Yeah.

Otis McGregor: 40:32

Saved saved my career because I would have gotten out. Was I jokingly say, if the internet was then what it is now, I probably would have hit send on a resignation paperwork online because yeah, it was so when I I had that feeling already and when I got got out and I started working for various companies, and and each one of those companies, it wouldn't, you know, it was it was definitely the it it wasn't them, it was me sort of thing, know, in the breakup. Because I didn't know what I wanted. I didn't know who I wanted to be, didn't know what I wanted to do. And when you struggle with that, the missing piece is your fulfillment.

Otis McGregor: 41:13

Know, money in the bank account does not fulfill you. It's never full enough. If you are chasing the dollar, you'll never be happy. So you have to find some way of being fulfilled. Something that that pulls you.

Otis McGregor: 41:27

Something that other than your loyalty because they ain't loyal back. Believe me, I don't care how good that person that person how much of a friend you think that guy is. I got laid off, treated like I was gonna steal from the company by a guy that I considered my friend that he said was we were friends. He he admits now he screwed that up. But you know what, that's what happens, it's business.

Otis McGregor: 41:51

But that business, when you say it's business, it's still your life. You you have to know and this is one of the things I help guys understand is is what's important to you. What are your values? And your values must must align with the organization that you are working for. If they do not align, you will never be happy there.

Otis McGregor: 42:12

And that's what when I reflect back to the culture or the groups and the companies I work for and the departments in those larger companies, that's what the problem was. It wasn't the mission because you know, when I first got out working for Lockheed, we were doing special ops stuff. You know, putting kind of contracts to help the, you know, still help the regiment if you will. But the organization was I I didn't it I didn't fit in because of my values did not align with the organization's values. And until you understand that and truly have an understanding of of who you are, you're never gonna be happy, man.

Rob Huberty: 42:49

It's just So here's an interesting question. When you go I I think that people think that they know themselves in the military and I think they struggle when they they come out. So you mentor people. This is something that I've noticed about both myself and, you know, hundreds of people that I've talked to over the years. I did business school first.

Rob Huberty: 43:08

I worked at a big company. I worked at Amazon before I did this job. And I didn't know what I liked when I got out of the military, which sounds like a weird thing, which is to say I didn't know myself in the same way. I knew how to pursue something. I knew how to like put the blinders on and go pursue excellence or what I viewed to be excellence.

Rob Huberty: 43:26

I knew how to do that. And I knew that like I was somehow satisfied if I could be the best or whatever. You know, the chips fell where they did, you know, what I was able to do or not able to do. Right? And then you come out and what do you want to do?

Rob Huberty: 43:40

Like, I don't know. So my advice typically to people is you have to try things and then figure out what you do and do that. So basically make an effort, see something, choose what you did or didn't like, move on to the next thing. You went through that, you've iterated, you talked through people. What advice do you give them about learning who they are and making sure that that alignment is proper?

Rob Huberty: 44:02

That their values are the same values, not the mission but the values. How do how do you help people identify that so that's advice for other people?

Otis McGregor: 44:10

Yeah. Well, you gotta understand what your values are, you know. Like for tribe and purpose, you know, our values are integrity, service and continuous learning and simple, right? And anybody I work with as a client, they have to have those similar values. Not the same, that's why I say values need to be aligned.

Otis McGregor: 44:38

So you have to define it and you have to write it down so it's real. Saying these are my values in your head is bullshit. You gotta write this stuff down, man, make it real. That's that's one. I'll share with you an exercise that I run all my clients, not just military guys, but all my clients through that I think is is so important because you gotta know what right looks like for you.

Otis McGregor: 45:01

And the way I do it, I call it the ideal day. And the ideal day is a actual date on the calendar. So we're recording this on the 03/13/2025. The ideal day I want you to think about and plan for is five years from today, thirteen March twenty thirty. It's a mark on the calendar.

Otis McGregor: 45:24

That's a PCS and a half away for those of you in the military. It's not that far. And what you're going to do is you're going to put the most detailed training schedule together from what time do you wake up, how do you wake up, Do you wake up to an alarm? Do you wake up before the alarm? Leave the alarm ball?

Otis McGregor: 45:42

All these sort of things. When you get out of bed, do you take a piss? Do you brush your teeth? Do you go outside and have a cigarette? What are you doing first?

Otis McGregor: 45:47

You run through the entire day what's ideal. And let me let me describe how ideal feels. Ideal feels like that boulevard that you just you just despise having to drive down, but for whatever reason the highway is closed or whatever. And you got to go the whole length of this boulevard with all the stoplights and all the traffic, school zones and everything you name it. The ideal day feels like this.

Otis McGregor: 46:13

As you come up to that first light and you're letting your foot off the gas to put it on the brake, right as you start to let it off, the light turns green. Then you come to the next light, same thing, light turns green. Light turns green, you go the whole length of this boulevard without one single red light. You're just flowing. That's what the ideal day feels like.

Otis McGregor: 46:32

And so it's something that doesn't happen every day, happens if you're you're good, put the work in. Probably happens once a month, maybe a couple times a quarter. That's not an everyday thing, it's a special day. So if you're a runner, when you get up in the morning. If you run-in the morning, what do you do?

Otis McGregor: 46:50

Do you run on a treadmill in your home gym? Do you go to a gym and run on a treadmill? Do you run outside? What's it like outside? Is it warm, cold?

Otis McGregor: 46:57

You run on a golf course, trail, street, neighborhood, suburb, dirt road? All these sort of things we start to shape. We're not even talking about what we do in our quote, you know, air quote nine to five shop, work payment. And oh by the way, here's a couple other little things about the ideal day. It must be a day that ends in Y and you plan it realistically unrestricted.

Otis McGregor: 47:22

Because you can do it, you can be a multi millionaire in five years if you put your mind to it. There's no doubt. I have no doubt you can do that. So you start to put these things together and we're going to create this crystal clear detailed image. Because when we have this image that we create in our head, our subconscious starts to look for ways to fulfill it.

Otis McGregor: 47:41

Think of it, I call this the red truck syndrome. I never saw a red pickup truck until the day I decided I wanted to buy a red f one fifty. Now that I decided to buy I wanted to buy a red f one fifty, guess what I see at every freaking intersection. Three of them in the Walmart parking lot, five in the Home Depot parking lot. And I'm thinking to myself, where did they all come from?

Otis McGregor: 47:59

Man, did I miss the sale yesterday or what? They were there all along but it was unimportant information. So the subconscious filter in my mind collecting data non stop said red trucks were not important. But as soon as I said I wanted a red pickup truck, guess what? My subconscious mind changed the filter to start to identify indicators.

Otis McGregor: 48:20

When you put the work in and I mean it's work to do it right and detail out the ideal day for you, you know what right looks like. And you can put together a plan to have that and that's a powerful place to be. We should all do that. Miss Suzanne and I, we do a form of that every year together. But guys that I'm teaching this to, what I always tell them is, hey, figure it start figuring it out for yourself and then teach your wife.

Otis McGregor: 48:47

And have her go to her corner of the table or the house or whatever and come up with hers and y'all come back together and come together with your ideal day for the two of you. Because you'd be surprised. And and unlike most and I'll just share this because I've been around a while. Been married thirty, almost thirty eight years now. Women don't like to do that.

Otis McGregor: 49:09

Guys, we're like, oh yeah. Here it is. This is what I want to do. Women are like, oh well you know, I'm kind of happy with no. Honey, I need you.

Otis McGregor: 49:17

I need you to do this. I need you to really think about this and put that together. It's a powerful place to be, man.

Sam Alaimo: 49:23

Some teamwork right there. You touched briefly on the principles of tribe and purpose. What you just talked about rolls into it, but more specifically, how does your military experience help those who are not in the military through your work at tribe and purpose? Kinda give an overview of that.

Otis McGregor: 49:37

Well, and I and I do this with the guys that I'm working with, soon to be veterans. The knowledge that you gain in the military is all the knowledge you need to be successful in business. The only thing you got to figure out is how to run a checkbook for the business because all those special ops guys, you know, spent our spent our entire career with a blank check. Planning is planning is the most important piece that I've gained from my military time. I've taught a master's degree program called Planning and Program Development.

Otis McGregor: 50:09

They had no program instruction when they hired me. Sent me a book, I was like, I started reading the book and I'm like, you know what that is? That's the military decision making process. I took the military decision making process, created an entire POI for this master's level course, translated into civilian speak. Did the same thing when I used to teach project management.

Otis McGregor: 50:28

Project management is nothing more than a military decision making process, five paragraph field order. Mission analysis, what's critical, what's what's what are the constraints, all these sort of things. That's how you get you set yourself up for success. The key to it is is the execution. Put the plan together so that your team is on the same sheet of music and then lead them.

Otis McGregor: 50:51

You also learn that in the military. You were given, taught leadership throughout your career. That's nobody else gets that. One of the things we do at Tribe and Purpose is we teach leadership to executives because nobody does that. There's a couple of, you know, Fortune one hundreds that do some leadership training, but it's it's like a highly selective thing.

Otis McGregor: 51:13

So it's not like I get promoted from junior manager to manager and I'm gonna go to the manager leadership school like we did in the military. Gotta figure it out on your own. So that right there leading leading people through execution, normal operations, and crisis operations is a skill set that every military guy brings to the table. Planning and leading. Those two things.

Sam Alaimo: 51:40

Awesome. Gonna wrap it up with a lightning round. You're still getting after it. A lot of lessons learned. What are a couple things you do to prime yourself in the morning to crush the day?

Otis McGregor: 51:50

PT. I wake up, I don't wake up to an alarm. I've got wake up early disease, get up around four or 04:15.

Sam Alaimo: 51:58

What time do you go to bed?

Otis McGregor: 51:59

09:30, ten. Okay. Nice. Yeah. So six plus hours.

Otis McGregor: 52:04

I know I'm supposed to be getting seven. Believe me, do all the reading on that stuff and go crap. But I ain't figured that. I ain't cracked that code yet. Go downstairs and right now I'm still in recovery from my my most recent back surgery.

Otis McGregor: 52:19

So I do do about twenty minutes on the bike, do some stretching. And then I come back up here to the office, get a cup of coffee, do my devotional, check my schedule for the day, validate that, do my gratitude list, and then I grab a book and get about twenty, thirty minutes of reading in before I go shower and come back in here after I shower, do a meditation and then have breakfast with miss Suzanne and then start helping people have better lives and more success in their life.

Sam Alaimo: 52:54

What does the, I'm curious because Sam Havelock who introduced us has a similar routine. What does your meditation and gratitude practice look like?

Otis McGregor: 53:01

Meditation is simple. I use the Calm app. Been using it for years. Big fan of it. Super simple.

Otis McGregor: 53:07

There's a I know there's a whole bunch of other ones out there. Find the one that works for you. When I started to it, before I started meditation I thought it was this woo woo thing. And for those of you who have that same belief, I'll I'll tell you what you're doing in meditation. Yeah, there's some other benefits.

Otis McGregor: 53:24

I won't get into those but here here's the real benefit for operator alpha types, is meditation is training your mind to focus. It's PT for your mind. That's the way I look at it. So it helps me focus in. And then my gratitude, I use a desktop, it it made a book, you know, journal thing where I have my schedule and part of that is you know, at the top of the pages, I'm thankful for.

Otis McGregor: 53:52

So I write my three I'm thankful for each morning. Awesome. Yeah.

Sam Alaimo: 53:56

Books. What are a couple books that have changed your life? You got a wall behind you.

Otis McGregor: 54:00

Oh yeah. Yeah. Meditations by Marcus Aurelius. I'm a big stoic. I I use stoicism in my weekly newsletters and I I tend to read it a couple of times, parts and pieces of various stoicism a couple of times a week.

Otis McGregor: 54:16

The next one is A Book of Five Rings by Miyamata Masoshi. Highly highly recommended. It is a tactics book if you are struggling. I give it to all my rugby coaching friends. It is the secret to success for rugby, I truly believe when you understand the five rings.

Otis McGregor: 54:36

And then the last one is a very business one and it's called On Selling by Mark McCullough. When we're in the military, don't realize we're selling. And everybody has this salesman or you know, this slick back used car salesman you know, outside the gate, right? That's that's wheeling and dealing with that that young sailor soldier who just got the bonus. You're selling everything man.

Otis McGregor: 54:59

If you can't, if you were selling your mission, you were selling your ability to succeed on your team. And when you get out, if you can't sell, your business is not going to be successful. Or the business that you were working for is not going to be successful. Or you're going to get laid off or fired because the boss is going to look at you, what have you done? Because you're not selling yourself.

Otis McGregor: 55:21

You're not selling what your capabilities are and what you can do. You have to sell. And that book on selling, I read it shoot like a year or two after I retired and it was it was eye opening for me because I didn't understand all that.

Sam Alaimo: 55:35

How can people follow you and your work?

Otis McGregor: 55:37

I'm on LinkedIn, that's the best way to get to me directly. Otis McGregor, dad is doctor, so don't be confused. You can also go to our website, 10xyourteam.net. That is our landing page where we have our programs. You can also follow us and we'd love it if you subscribe to our YouTube channel, that's where our podcast is, 10x Your Team with Cam and Otis.

Otis McGregor: 56:03

Like I was telling you guys in the Green Room, we've been doing it for almost six years now, 400 plus episodes and and love it and the amount of information from our guests could fill volumes, bookshelves. And then that's also where you can get Whiskey Words. My favorite piece of content, my philosophy, thoughts on various things and I'm out back sometimes with a fire, sometimes not. But pretty much with a glass of whiskey and a cigar in my hand. So that's that's 10xyourteam.net and 10xyourteam on YouTube.

Otis McGregor: 56:45

Rock and roll.

Sam Alaimo: 56:46

You got anything else you want to add?

Otis McGregor: 56:48

Hey, I appreciate all the opportunity to share. And you know what, if you are getting out, if you're still on active duty or or or even if you have gotten out, the the resources out there are immense. I work with the Commit Foundation and the Honor Foundation. Both of those don't cost you a thing but your time, which is your most precious asset. But it's what they're both well worth it.

Otis McGregor: 57:13

Highly highly recommend both of those programs for different needs. So if you're curious about those, contact me and I'll you the the once over of what those programs provide you. Because they will help you figure out what your next adventure in life will be when you take the uniform off.

Sam Alaimo: 57:36

Otis genuinely appreciate your time.

Otis McGregor: 57:38

Thay has been great guys. Thank you.

Sam Alaimo: 57:41

That's it for this episode. If you wanna check out more from the podcast, head to 0Eyes.com/NoBell where you can see show notes, read more about our guests, and suggest guests or topics of your own. Until next time, stay in the fight, don't ring the bell.