Sam Alaimo: 00:29

This is the Nobel podcast where we talk about how to optimize your technology, life, and mind. We're joined by special operations veterans, entrepreneurs, investors, and others who have overcome difficulty to make it to the top of their craft by staying in the fight. Alright. Let's start with the easy stuff. What is your name?

Rob Huberty: 00:50

Rob Huberty. Like, puberty, but with an h.

Sam Alaimo: 00:54

Where did you grow up?

Rob Huberty: 00:55

So my parents are New Yorkers. I was born in Chicago. I lived in Phoenix from the time I was 2 to 10 and then Connecticut from the time I was 10 to 18. So a lot of times I say I'm from Connecticut, but, like, I don't know what the fuck that means.

Sam Alaimo: 01:11

So where did you go to school?

Rob Huberty: 01:13

So I I flipped schools all the time. So I I half Catholic school and then half, you know, public school. So I would flip back and forth. In a high school, I went to a Jesuit high school, and I I think that that was a little bit formative.

Sam Alaimo: 01:28

Okay. And you you wrestled?

Rob Huberty: 01:30

I did. So that I I played football for a lot of my life and then I wrestled. And, like, wrestling was a thing that I was a good football player, but I was undersized to, like, play, like, division 1 college, but, like like, that was just never gonna happen. I'm 59, 165. But wrestling is pretty good.

Sam Alaimo: 01:47

So how did they go from your school, Jesuit, Catholic, to, let's say, either college or the military? And then what was your decision process?

Rob Huberty: 01:57

So with college, everything at that school, like, pretty much a 100% of the kids go to college. So that's the expectation. So every now and again, somebody would, like, drop out and, like, enlist, and they were kind of pariahs to the school. And so I had an aspiration to go in the military for whatever reason. My brother 4 years ahead of me, my brother went to the Citadel and he went in the army.

Rob Huberty: 02:22

So as he was graduating college, I was graduating high school. And I thought I was gonna go from whatever we would use to go to West Point games, like football games. My, you know, my New York side of the family would go to that and just be like, maybe I'll go to West Point, and I'll go try to wrestle for them. So I went through the whole process, like, with wrestling. I was, like, talking to the coaches.

Rob Huberty: 02:46

You know, I don't know how much interest that I thought they had or whatever it was, but I got my congressional nomination. You know, I think that I was probably within the line. I didn't apply to any other school. So I got waitlisted. I was called what was a qualified nonselect, which is basically a very small candidate pool, which I didn't know at the time.

Rob Huberty: 03:05

And so I ended up going to college to Arizona because I grew up in Arizona a little bit. I was like, I'd like the Wildcats. Like, I don't there wasn't a lot of thought into that because I didn't get into West Point, and I was bitter about it.

Sam Alaimo: 03:22

Okay.

Rob Huberty: 03:22

Probably still bitter to this day.

Sam Alaimo: 03:24

So from where you're at right now, which we'll get into by then hindsight, what was your ultimate goal when you were going into college? Was it I know you had a a thing with Atticus Finch, which I never actually asked you about. Was there a goal to be a lawyer there? Was the goal military? Or was it

Rob Huberty: 03:37

Right. So I I showed up as an engineering major, and I was just, like, maybe I'll go be an engineer. And so I had, like, a bunch of math courses. And somewhere in the midst of it, I I don't know what it was, but I was like, you know what? I'd rather be a lawyer.

Rob Huberty: 03:51

So, like, my freshman year of college, I went from being engineering to political science. So I basically studied, like, US government and stuff like that, and then I said, maybe I'll be a lawyer. And so I took, you know, for 4 years, any kind of, I took a lot of, like, legal courses. As to why, yeah, I grew up. I read To Kill a Mockingbird.

Rob Huberty: 04:11

I thought that, you know, the American system a lot of the times that lawyers are somebody who can change even though, like, fundamentally, they're just like if if you go in as, like, an a lawyer who wants to change law, that's like the opposite of what they're looking for. Like, if you go to law schools and be like, dude, I think the system sucks, and I wanna fix it. They're like, no. No. No.

Rob Huberty: 04:31

No. You are a person who upholds it and don't rock the boat too much. That's, like, honestly, that's what the law is.

Sam Alaimo: 04:36

So Atticus Finch gave you an ideal. And when you got saw the reality, you realized you needed to pivot.

Rob Huberty: 04:41

Right. And then my other brother also became a lawyer. So, like, one is just like, Rob, don't go in the army. It's terrible. You won't like what's for dinner.

Rob Huberty: 04:50

And then my other brother was like, Rob, don't be a lawyer. It's terrible. And then, like, I was like, well, fuck. That's what I thought I was gonna go do.

Sam Alaimo: 04:56

Yeah. So where did the FDNY fit in there? Was that before, during, or after college?

Rob Huberty: 05:01

So that was kinda during college. Right? So, like, the 911 happened when I was in college. So I started college in 99, and then I ended up graduating in 03. I did a semester in Spain in the fall of 2001.

Rob Huberty: 05:16

So I got into, like, some big fight in college, and I I was like I was a designated driver. I had a gun pulled on me, and somebody threw a Yankee candle at my head as, like, I was the designated driver. And, I mean, he I've never gotten hit harder in my entire life, but it was, like, one of those big Yankee candles. A guy wound up and threw it as hard as he could, but I didn't see him because, like, another guy was pushing a girl, and it was, like, in somebody's apartment. And so I was bleeding, and I was trying to fight a guy with a gun.

Rob Huberty: 05:45

It was literally in my face. And, like, it's just a weird thing. I just decided that my friend group maybe was not the best. And I was like, I'm gonna transfer out of here. So I had I had to, like, literally drive myself to the hospital because everybody was too drunk to go get stitches.

Rob Huberty: 06:01

I think I got, like, 25 stitches in my face or something like that. And so, like, I was I was pretty bitter about it, and, like, you know, I could've gotten killed. I had no I had no idea that I was, like, throwing punches at a guy with a gun on my foot. I had no idea. So I did a study abroad instead.

Rob Huberty: 06:18

So I lived in Spain. I became, like, a much better student. And so September 11th happened when I was there. And so I kind of, you know, growing up outside of the New York City suburbs, you know, that profoundly affected me. And that was the impetus to go in the military when I was like, I decided that the whole thing was kinda dumb based on my brother and based on I took, like, ROTC courses where, like, they just treated you really poorly and the whole thing just seemed, like, you know, like, rinky dink.

Rob Huberty: 06:48

Were you patriotic

Sam Alaimo: 06:49

up to that point or more so after?

Rob Huberty: 06:51

I don't even know that I am patriotic, but I think America's pretty cool.

Sam Alaimo: 06:55

What was it about 911 that got you riled up then?

Rob Huberty: 06:59

I mean, terrorists attacked us, and I think that there is something true for as messed up as United States is that we are a beacon of hope. I think that if you wanna do a business in the world and you wanna change the world, like, you probably do it out of, like, the Bay Area. If you wanna go to a great school, you know, I'd I went to Wharton for my MBA, and crazy that number of buses who visit from, like, China, from wherever. Busloads of people take pictures of the school because that's what that's, like, the ultimate hope of what they do from all over the world. Like, the American education system's incredible.

Sam Alaimo: 07:39

I think if you have

Rob Huberty: 07:40

a heart surgeon, who's the best heart surgeon in the world? It's gonna be American, and it might not be born in America. And I I think just the the the, I guess, in the the sense of patriotism that we are able to solve problems at a profound level with people who are kicked out of their countries, who are ostracized, and we provided a haven for that. It's also how we do our tax code. People can keep more of their money.

Rob Huberty: 08:04

All of those combined to make an unbelievably amazing culture that basically if you're if you're a great athlete and you're gonna win an Olympic medal, you probably train in the United States. Like, all of these things are true and you get exposed to that, there's huge flaws. But, like, it's pretty cool for that reason. I think all of that stuff's undeniable that America is a beacon of hope. It totally is.

Sam Alaimo: 08:27

So 911 happens, you go to ground 0, say, I wanna join the FDNY.

Rob Huberty: 08:31

Yeah. So I think the FDNY is pretty clean. Like, everybody likes firefighters, not necessarily police as much. And and I I didn't do it immediately after, so I graduated. So this is, like, 03.

Rob Huberty: 08:45

So they basically hired thousands of people. And because the FDA NOI is what it is, they lost 343 firefighters. They no one retired. Like, everybody was so locked in. So no one retired, and then hired some gigantic class.

Rob Huberty: 09:01

And I I don't remember how many years they didn't hire for, but it was probably, like, 5 plus years. And so I was in, like, year 2 of it, and they're like, are they gonna hire? I'm like, no. So I took the civil service exam. And I was like, maybe I'll go to law school, do that at night, and then I got hired by the NYPD.

Rob Huberty: 09:17

And that was another thing where, you know, it looked very bureaucratic to me. They they put the date of like, the hire date was, like, a year away, so I had to wait to class up for a year. And then I started being like, I'm gonna be a Navy SEAL. So

Sam Alaimo: 09:32

Was that the earliest moment you realized you wanted to be a SEAL?

Rob Huberty: 09:35

So when I was, like, a little kid, I was exposed to the SEAL teams through my dad and a friend that like, his best friend growing up who at least the the claim was that he was a frogman and the UDT guy. And I was aware of what that was. I read the books about it when I was a kid. And then, you know, I did the pop culture stuff, the dumbest, you know, I would watch Die Hard and think John McClane was like a real cop or something like that. You know what I mean?

Rob Huberty: 10:01

And so, you know, you watch Casey Ryback in Under Siege and be like, Navy SEAL is invincible. You see the Charlie Sheen, you know, Michael Bean movies, and, you know, that gets into your idea of what a Navy Seal is. And then I read the, you know, the Dick Marcinko books, which are fiction. They're absolutely fiction, and they're they're not. But they're written as if they're real and, like, the unless otherwise directed in Vietnam.

Rob Huberty: 10:27

And then I started reading, you know, more standard seal books, the Vietnam kind of stuff. But a lot even, like, the men with green faces was one that is also a fiction book, but it's written as if it's not. So it's a Vietnam book that's a and so I read all that stuff. I read the Tom Clancy stuff, and I, you know, it it was when I was a kid, I was exposed to it was funny, like, when I I talked to, like, the first seal recruiter who's in o six, I was gonna try to go be an officer at the Merchant Marine Academy. He's like, what books have you read?

Rob Huberty: 10:57

And I named all of those off, and he's like, oh, that's unfortunate. He's just like, you you read the wrong stuff. Like, you didn't read the you know? And then, you know, I read, like, the Warrior of Eve, that kind of stuff, the dick couch books that are real. And even, I think, you know, who who anybody who's written a book, not to poke at anybody, but, like, there is a probably a truth gap of, like, what your perceived truth and what the reality is anyway.

Rob Huberty: 11:22

So I was a victim to all that, and I liked the pop culture seal thing. And I thought, you know, seals were like, you know, I had an idea of, like, Bruce Lee could beat up anybody in the world when I was a kid, and then, like, the UFCs kinda prove, like, what? Not really true. Like, it's it's a lot more mundane than you think. You can't go into the mountains of Nepal and learn the touch of death.

Rob Huberty: 11:44

There's no such thing. And I had an idea that, you know, seals were stealth ninja assassins. And then when, you know, when the rubber met the road and I was like, what am I gonna do with my life? I had all of that stuff kind of growing up in the in the back of my mind as a kid. Too much GI Joe, too many Batman comic books, too many Marvel comic books, and I guess I believe them.

Rob Huberty: 12:06

Like, I'm gonna go be a hero, and then, you know, it's not that's not what it is.

Sam Alaimo: 12:10

So the Marvel, FDNY, NYPD, wrestling, navy seal, where does being a barista fit in there? I'm wrestling, navy seal, where does being a burgess that fit in there?

Rob Huberty: 12:17

So in the midst of all of that, I needed a job that actually paid money. So I I entered the district attorney's office in Philadelphia, and that's I didn't know

Sam Alaimo: 12:25

that, man.

Rob Huberty: 12:25

Yeah. So, like, I I was like, do I be am I gonna be a lawyer or not? So I saw what a lawyer does. I got into schools, like, right out of college, I was 3, but it took a year in between when, like, I I took the civil service exam. I reapplied to law schools, and I was like, I should see what a lawyer does.

Rob Huberty: 12:43

So for 6 months, I was at the district attorney's office in Philly watching, like, legal cases. And are awesome. And it was it was really good. I learned a lot, and I learned that, like, I would not like what's for dinner if I was a lawyer. And in the midst of it, I had to make money to actually do something.

Rob Huberty: 13:01

So I I was a barista at a Starbucks in the midst of that where I actually met my wife. So as I was going to the SEAL teams, I met her. We started dating. And like a moron, I was you know, I I told her, I was like, this is not gonna work out. This is a short term thing.

Rob Huberty: 13:16

I'm probably gonna go and get killed. I literally said that to her.

Sam Alaimo: 13:20

It's melodramatic.

Rob Huberty: 13:21

Right. It's very melodramatic. And we've been together for, you know, over 20 years at this point. So

Sam Alaimo: 13:28

Good things come from being a barista.

Rob Huberty: 13:30

Right. I could make a mean cup of coffee.

Sam Alaimo: 13:32

You know

Rob Huberty: 13:32

what I mean?

Sam Alaimo: 13:33

When when did you enlist? What year was it?

Rob Huberty: 13:35

So I did the I signed up in 04, but I the ship off date wasn't till 05, so

Sam Alaimo: 13:40

I started in 05. Did you go straight to bud? Did you have

Rob Huberty: 13:43

a rate? So I didn't I had a rating. So I had to go to OSA school. Mhmm. So I did it was you you have to pick, like, one of a handful of jobs that you used to.

Rob Huberty: 13:52

And so OS was, like, intelligence. You know? It's like how like, I didn't even really care. I was like, whatever gets me to BUDS. And so what I really learned is that an OS is more like an asshole from the movie Spaceballs.

Rob Huberty: 14:05

You stare at, you know, radar screens. I'm an asshole, sir. We're all assholes. Like, it it's it I it's that you we work in inside, like, an air conditioned room on a ship where you do, you know, observational stuff on radar, you know, the path of the ship and all that stuff, and you're supposed to to help them. And it it it looks like what the guys in Spaceballs did.

Rob Huberty: 14:28

I mean, that's what you know, they're they're they're trying to mimic a navy ship, and that's what it is, to best describe it. So that was in Dan Neck. When I showed up to a school, Red Wings happened. So I was in, you know, in the navy in Virginia Beach when Red Wings happened basically at the command because damn it. You're on the same base as damn that.

Rob Huberty: 14:49

And which is crazy. Like, that's why I was coming in. Like, you'd see the guys. You're like, oh, that's the secret side of base. There's, like, more than one secret side of that.

Rob Huberty: 14:58

It's a small teeny tiny thing. Going to OSA school, and I, you know, I was trying very hard then. And, you know, going in with your college degree and having kind of background, so, like, I I went through boot camp and I got, like, the award for best folding your laundry and ironing your underwear guy.

Sam Alaimo: 15:13

Fuck on.

Rob Huberty: 15:14

So I was one of those guys. And then OSA school, like, I did I don't I don't think I lost the point in the whole thing. So when I graduated, like, I was the honor man of my OSA school thing because, like, I had a college degree and most other people don't and, like, I'm not gonna mess this up. And then after that, BUDS.

Sam Alaimo: 15:32

So fast forward to BUDS. You you said before that it was it actually lived up to your expectations. Can you dig into what that meant? What did you expect it to be and what was it?

Rob Huberty: 15:41

So I think almost everything that I've ever done and everything I've ever seen that I had an idea of, like, what a superhero is, it doesn't exist. Right? If if, you know, I I read CIA books and I watched James Bond stuff, and then you realize what a spy does and it's not that. It's and and and it's not it's so far from that that it, like, maybe it's so massively disappointing do any of those things. You're gonna pay somebody money and, like, try to get recruit people.

Rob Huberty: 16:10

Like, like, you're not gonna do any of those things. You're gonna pay somebody money and, like, try to get recruit people. Like, it's it's so missold. And I think even being a miss a navy seal, I thought I would be on a secret mission never to be seen again, and that's I was just gonna do secret missions in that. And, Like, I guess some of the missions are secret, but, like, it's not really that.

Rob Huberty: 16:28

It's 99% boring, 1%, like, exhilarating. But BUDS is the closest thing I've ever done in my life of something that lived up to expectation. Like, the difficulty in 1, you know, 6 AM to 6 PM day is probably not that bad, but but the effect of, like, 6 months of basically every day being completely miserable is pretty good. I think logged PT and boats on your heads are pretty pretty awful, and I I don't know that there's a whole lot of people who cannot get scuffed by that. If you put the toughest people in the world under a log in a log PT from the 3 hours that they last, you know, a CrossFit game winner, like, you're gonna scuff them.

Rob Huberty: 17:12

Like, that's nobody can make it through that unscathed. I've you know, I've never even heard of it. There were people that I thought were unscathed, and they're like, how was that? And I'm like, I literally can't do one more step.

Sam Alaimo: 17:23

Was there ever a moment you actually considered quitting?

Rob Huberty: 17:26

No. And maybe that's just because I'm stupid, and I I I don't know what it is. Every moment, I wish that we're doing something else. So, like, you're in a log PTs, like, this is really terrible. I wish that we're getting sort of tortured.

Rob Huberty: 17:40

You know? And you get served tortured, and you're like, this is really terrible. I wish we're doing the old course. You know, there are certain things I was better at that, like, the oak course was a little bit of a vacation for me. I was not a great soft sand runner, so that was torture every time.

Rob Huberty: 17:57

You know, these some some things were better than others, but I don't think that there was a moment of quitting. And then sometimes, like, in my BUDS class, I think that everybody thinks that there there's just one beating that was, like, epic. I didn't think it was that bad. And it's kinda funny sharing stories years later and being like, dude, I got beat all the time. So, like, that one wasn't that bad.

Rob Huberty: 18:15

You just, like, you didn't get beat that much. And, like, welcome to my world. Welcome to, like, a soft sand run for me, which was, like, torture.

Sam Alaimo: 18:23

So, like, we Bud just talked a lot about being hard, but, like, one of the most important things about Buds is the meaning you get from it. The fortifying your soul for whatever comes. What was the most meaningful moment of BUDS if you could remember 1?

Rob Huberty: 18:34

I I don't know that there's a meaningful moment, and I don't think the lessons are are necessarily profound. I think BUDS whittles away in the people who can't be SEALs or I mean, I think a lot of people probably could have made it through anyway, but it just you're unlucky. But the it's it's so impossibly hard that it's gonna get rid of good people too. Like, it it probably way too many. But it's it's, like, better to be fed than hungry.

Rob Huberty: 19:01

It's better to be warm than cold, and it's much better to win than it is to lose. And, like, I I think the best part of BUDS is the fact that it's not fair. Like, there's very little of it is fair. And and every now and again, like, an instructor comes and gets you in the middle of the night, and it's not on the program, and it's they're going through a divorce, and if they were to be found out, they'd get in trouble for it. And you get destroyed in the middle of the night in the laundry room, and you work out for, like, 3 hours.

Rob Huberty: 19:34

You're, like, sweating through your stuff and you're bleeding in your hands. And you're, like, this isn't fair. I'm getting extra buds. And the next day you have, like, a log BT. And, like, if you're somebody who will crumble from that, then you're gonna be somebody who crumbles.

Rob Huberty: 19:47

And there's a beauty about doing something that's unfair, I think, in our society. It's not fair. And, like, buds, this isn't fair. And they're like, they're gonna get rid of me, and they're like, yeah. No.

Rob Huberty: 19:57

I know. That's kinda the point. And there's a beauty in that of doing stuff that's not fair all the time because war is not fair. Right. And and to to, like, have somebody deliberately not fair, I think, is particularly when you're trying to train, like, the the toughest people in the world your best to be like, dude, if you're complaining about fairness, like, dude, that that you can't even start.

Rob Huberty: 20:24

So I I would say there wasn't one moment, but a lot of the times you just go through stuff and you're just like, wait a minute. They're they're throwing us this epic beating and we didn't do what they said we did. And it happened so consistently that I think getting used to having to win like, you have to win. Like, you you can't just, like, exist. Like, you have to get through the whole thing when everything is stacked against you, and they're like, hey.

Rob Huberty: 20:50

We're gonna we're gonna lunge from here until the other base that's 3 miles away. We're gonna lunges with a lot or whatever it is to it's at least 2 to North Island Gate. It's like 2 and a quarter or something like that. You have to lunge with a log all the way there and all the way back, which is, like, insurmountable. And they're, like, no, but we're just gonna do it until we're done.

Rob Huberty: 21:11

You know, like, that's that's impossible. Like, yeah. Probably. Yeah. It's pretty it makes tough people.

Sam Alaimo: 21:17

So you get through all that. But, SUT, you graduate, you get your Trident, and then you show up to the team as a new guy. Right. Can you talk about what it's like to be inside of the brain as someone who goes from that pinnacle of training to then the bottom the bottom hierarchy

Rob Huberty: 21:31

of the team? Checking into the team was very bad for me. It was worse. It was worse being a new guy than it was going through BUDS. It was even less fair.

Rob Huberty: 21:43

Mhmm. I'd I you know, nobody's gonna make you do a vlog PT necessarily, but I checked into the team, and there was they had gone through a mission that was really, really bad. So I think I I checked in before the mission occurred, but, like, I I checked in while the team was on deployment, and they were coming home. So different guys were coming home in different groups, and they were doing turnover ops. So, like, Clarkie Schwedler got killed in a house, and they left him in there, and Mike Day got shot 27 times in the same like, that that happened in the the same op.

Rob Huberty: 22:18

And so a lot of the dudes came back pretty mentally scarred. So they they left both of those guys dead in the house, and they didn't know it. They did a head count. They thought they were up. And then they're like, okay, somebody just dead in the door, and then Mike Day is also in there.

Rob Huberty: 22:30

And, like, some kind of combination of that. I wasn't there. I was in Virginia Beach. And so they came home, and guys were not okay from that. Right?

Rob Huberty: 22:39

And and basically, it was that op, but everybody was home, like, immediately after. They didn't even do, like, 2 more ops or anything Like, that was it. And so you just had guys take it out on the new guys. And and some of it was out of, like, a good place. Like, the stakes are so high in the war that we're fighting.

Rob Huberty: 22:54

You have to be perfect. And then for whatever reason, the platoon that I was in, you know, the chiefs were like, new guys get no schools. Mhmm. I chipped paint and repainted hallways at the old ceiling Ford building. And then basically, like, guys would, like, make you take them out as a designated driver and they would just mess with you.

Rob Huberty: 23:14

And it was, like, 6 months of that, and, like, that sucked. To the point where, like, I I only went out with friends at, like, different teams or in different platoons. Like, there wasn't a culture of the platoon that I was going into that were, like, hey. We can be friends and teammates, and we're gonna build them. No.

Rob Huberty: 23:31

There was no it was awful. It was basically hazing, and it I showed up pretty early, whereas all the other new guys who checked into that platoon came from, like, the next buds class or something like that. So I basically pro dev was you know, the first 6 months were brutal. After that, like, it got better, but, like, you know, the the hazing kind of stuff was pretty pronounced.

Sam Alaimo: 23:52

That's interesting from my perspective because when I check-in, I was your new guy.

Rob Huberty: 23:56

Yeah.

Sam Alaimo: 23:57

And how did so how did your experience as a new guy influence the way you treated your new guys when you were more senior?

Rob Huberty: 24:03

So the nonsense that I experienced, I said I won't do it to you guys. Because at at at one given point, there was even, like, a little bit of an insurrection of, like, I thought the 1 platoons and the 2 platoons were a little bit lazy. We

Sam Alaimo: 24:16

could hold on. We could just Yeah. Make a note of the time. So it's

Rob Huberty: 24:20

That's what you do. You do, like, a loud noise because you can see it on a spike.

Sam Alaimo: 24:24

Nice. So it's

Rob Huberty: 24:25

There's a freaking guy behind in a in a corner that's, like, 2 feet by 2 feet with a a fucking leaf blower, which is ridiculous.

Sam Alaimo: 24:32

The first part we could filter out with AI. That's the part we can't. What up, buddy?

Rob Huberty: 24:37

This is ridiculous.

Sam Alaimo: 24:39

I don't think there are any leads back there.

Rob Huberty: 24:41

Is it higher?

Sam Alaimo: 24:42

No. He's right there. He's right here behind me.

Rob Huberty: 24:44

He literally just sat down. He's definitely coming back because, like, that's not done. My guy probably does that once every 6 months.

Sam Alaimo: 24:53

Well, so we're at 20 7:30. Alright. So we'll start back over Yeah. From here. So the how did your experience as a new guy influence the way you treated your new guys?

Rob Huberty: 25:06

So, I mean, it's up to you to decide this, but I the worse you get it and the more that I thought it was stupid, the less I wanted to do it. And I was like, we are not even gonna, like, do anything but treat them as, like, teammates. That that was, like, what I said. And, like, we all came together and talked about it. And then Rob Strasburger actually, like, brought me in, and he's like, you can't do that.

Rob Huberty: 25:29

Like, that's really dangerous. And he's just because he'd seen he's like, I understand your take. And Rob Strasburger was, like, maybe a guy who enjoyed the bringing up new guys, maybe in a harsh manner.

Sam Alaimo: 25:46

Tom, I'm very familiar with that. So if if there is a method behind the madness, please enlighten me.

Rob Huberty: 25:51

So he's like, new guys come in super arrogant because they go through something that is, like, impossibly difficult, and you have to quash them down. They have to see the reality of it that, like, that they don't know anything. That just because they went through that, they were the number one shot in their class. Like, you're gonna see, like, actual professional shooters. And, like, they have to learn.

Rob Huberty: 26:12

And what you can't do is hold them to the same standard as guys who have been there and done that. Like, they they need to have very harsh realities to lessons. And he's like, you can be fair and do that, and then you can be unfair. And there's guys, you know, at different teams that, you know, we've shared stories. A lot of the stories that are very bad always involve drinking.

Rob Huberty: 26:34

And so, like, if you can avoid that kind of stuff, I think the fairness is, different. I was extremely anti hazing, extremely anti hazing for you guys. And I don't know that you probably knew that, that, like, we'd be in groups, so, like, we're gonna make these. They're, like, no. That's wrong.

Rob Huberty: 26:55

I don't think that we should do that. We need to make how this makes sense. There has to be a beginning and a middle and an end. And, like, it really we can only go after the people who have, like, have these egos, have whatever, and aren't willing to listen. And there were other guys who were against that, and usually the guys who got hazed the worst become the the lead the leading instigator of it.

Rob Huberty: 27:17

I don't know what it is. So without naming names, the one that you probably lives in your mind the most was probably Hayes the most. And then he turned it back going, I'm gonna get these guys, and I I had an opposite feeling of that. So I I I don't think that I was ever singled out just like as like a person for something I did. It's just as a group, like, because I was new.

Rob Huberty: 27:38

This was a person who was singled out because they did things that were deemed, you know, like, not worthy or whatever it was unethical or whatever it was, and they crushed them. And then we would come back and have discussions and be like, dude, you're taking it too far. Stop this. They everybody hates you. Do you really wanna be on a team with people who hate you?

Rob Huberty: 27:57

And I think there's a fairness level, and, like, I mean, you could have your opinion on whatever it is. We're at least in different platoons, so it wasn't quite as directly involved in that. But, I mean, it's your perception of of what really happened or, you know, the same kind of thing. Right? I don't know.

Sam Alaimo: 28:12

I mean, from my part, there was a clear difference between hazing out of joy and hazing for mentorship. Right. You were you were purely a mentor. That was that was greatly appreciated. So in the teams, what were your specialties?

Rob Huberty: 28:27

So, you know, you start off as basically an assaulter, and and usually when they do that, they you carry the heavy gun. So my first deployment, I I think that they, you know, my team was just like, hey. You're pretty smart. So you're gonna do the the SSE stuff. And my first appointment, we did the like, like, a JSOC mission set that was, like, more high end, and we ended up working with FBI, like, CIA stuff.

Rob Huberty: 28:53

And so we had to, like, tell a story after every op. So I did the SSE, and then I would have to do, like, combine the tactical questioning. All that was, like, you come home from a mission and then have to go debrief the FBI. So I did, like, the intel stuff as, like, an insulter and then, like, you know, the crime scene investigation. Like, what were the things that you picked up from her, you know, we call that SSE, which is sensitive site exploitation or something like that.

Rob Huberty: 29:17

I don't know. Like, it's a dumb acronym that doesn't really mean anything. But it's the the CSI, the you get the hard drives, the papers, the documents, you bring them back, you tell them what room, this is where we found the people. And then so they they can basically do a court case. So but I was in charge of that.

Rob Huberty: 29:36

So, like, on a in an op, like, I basically was in charge of everything that came off. Right? And so that was without any school because I was a new guy. They're like, new guys don't get school. After between my first and second deployment, I got to do basically all the cool schools I wanted.

Rob Huberty: 29:50

So I became a sniper, a breacher, and a JTAC in between that second workout.

Sam Alaimo: 29:54

Oh, shoot.

Rob Huberty: 29:55

And so I basically got all the good schools. Right? And, like, the so I would say, to me, what I was most proud of is being in a seal team was being, like, a team lead, a sniper, and, like, a point man. And and it's it's really hard. I'm I'm 10 years out of the military, but a lot of the things of how to be a point man, how to be a sniper, live with me still because, like, you you are responsible for every footstep that your team takes.

Rob Huberty: 30:24

You don't wanna get people tired. You can't walk them over a minefield. You can't make mistakes. You have to paint this picture, memorize everything, and then, like, give the best way in. And so, like, a lot of the way that I solve problems and how I learned to do that stuff is, like, my pride in being a Navy SEAL was, you know, distance shooting.

Rob Huberty: 30:43

Like, I was proud of, like, my ability at that. But the being a point man and being responsible for infill, exfil was something that I really did myself in that still, I think, lives in me.

Sam Alaimo: 30:56

So now we get to the point where you're thinking about transition now. What was the impetus to transition?

Rob Huberty: 31:01

It was the dying down of the war. So GWAT to me became less meaningful to Pulse, and I I saw the writing on the wall. And realistically, for me, the Let's let's

Sam Alaimo: 31:13

pause it. 3420. The AI gets rid of all of it, but that's just too much.

Rob Huberty: 31:19

It's too much. We could literally film here for, like, 10000 hours and not run into this same problem.

Sam Alaimo: 31:25

He's taking his time, so this might take a little bit. Hardworking dude, man. I wonder if I stop it if he did merge the videos together, if I should keep it going. Erin's gonna be yelling at me right now probably as she listens to this. We'll leave it going.

Sam Alaimo: 31:39

He seems to be doing a detailed job, which is nice.

Rob Huberty: 31:41

There won't be a lease back there anymore.

Sam Alaimo: 31:42

Until next year. I actually find doing that almost therapeutic. But, yeah,

Rob Huberty: 31:53

leafbloons, like, feels good.

Sam Alaimo: 31:55

Yeah. There's no

Rob Huberty: 31:55

It feels good. You also see it for, like like, it it it makes everything look beautiful and. The only thing that sucks about it is breathing the shit out. I actually wear just like

Sam Alaimo: 32:05

a wrangle on my face. It was so bad. I got something like that.

Rob Huberty: 32:07

Surprised that he's not wearing something.

Sam Alaimo: 32:09

Oh, dude, these

Rob Huberty: 32:13

guys. I

Sam Alaimo: 32:14

remember I remember Stoss. Like, I didn't I didn't I guess I kinda knew why he was doing it, but I was so upset at the extent of it. Yeah. I didn't wanna know why he was doing it. I was just so pissed off.

Sam Alaimo: 32:23

He cared. He definitely cared.

Rob Huberty: 32:26

I don't he also did take it too far, though. Well, you

Sam Alaimo: 32:29

Was that just his era? Was that, like, the era? Dude, it's He was a pre 2,000 he was pre 9, wasn't he? He was pre 9. So they were just that's all they did was beat the show.

Sam Alaimo: 32:37

Wild, dude. Come on, brother.

Rob Huberty: 32:39

But, like, at at one given point in my platoon, my first platoon, like, we were just like, alright, motherfuckers. Do you think you can all beat all the new guys in a fight? Because that's where we're at. You have to beat us, and I don't think you can.

Sam Alaimo: 32:51

When you were a new guy, you guys said that to them? Oh, fuck, man.

Rob Huberty: 32:54

I was it was me. I I was serious. And it it was, like, over a mustache thing, super late, the thing, and we all shaved them. And they're like, we're fucking tape you all up. Like, because they don't worry taped us up and done that stuff.

Rob Huberty: 33:04

Like, we all got taped up at at at at given points. And you're like, do you think that we became Navy SEALs because we were pussies?

Sam Alaimo: 33:13

No. Do you

Rob Huberty: 33:13

think we're gonna fucking kowtow to your stuff that's like, do you wanna go to war with us? Do you think that, like, we're not gonna shoot you in the fucking back? Like, back the fuck off, which

Sam Alaimo: 33:22

is what I thought

Rob Huberty: 33:22

of Mike. Yeah. Yeah, man.

Sam Alaimo: 33:24

Alright. So we're at 3750. So we'll just start that part over again. So what was the impetus for you to decide to transition out of the teams and out of the navy?

Rob Huberty: 33:35

So it was it was a few things. I I think the number one thing was the decline of the GWAT, the operational tempo, deploying for purpose. So I think that, you know, I did 3 deploy you know, 2 year cycle work of deployment things, like, 3 of them, and I think that I did very meaningful ones. And I think that, you know, either we had a great impact on, like, our effect on my first deployment. It wasn't super kinetic, but, like, we ended up putting real bad guys to death a lot.

Rob Huberty: 34:05

The second one was extremely kinetic, and, you know, it was a little bit the wild west. The third one was meaningful because we would go into the areas that mattered. It was like a strike force thing. And none of them were probably the d day thing that I ever thought. I think that anybody who is in GWAT still doesn't hold a candle to a dude who stormed the beaches in Amity.

Rob Huberty: 34:27

Like, I don't think it's even close. So, like, you can talk about medal of honor recipients, and the stories just aren't as good in GWOT as they were in World War 2. Like, it's like, it's apples and oranges. Right? So how do you hold yourself on, like, what your career looks like?

Rob Huberty: 34:46

I don't know. How do you hold yourself as a warrior? And I don't think that going through a training block for the 15th time doing Shaw's and being like, I'm really great at Shaw's matters if you don't go to war with it.

Sam Alaimo: 34:59

Did you want to do a career and realize this halfway through?

Rob Huberty: 35:02

I I didn't even think about it. I was very willing to do a career. I loved the seal teams. I loved the people I worked with. I've I've never worked with better people.

Rob Huberty: 35:11

And getting out of the military, I craved it so much that we came and we'd started this because I feel naked without it. I've never felt a more place of belonging than I did in the SEAL teams even though I don't actually think that I think I'm an anomaly in the SEAL teams. I think that, like, I was a weird analytical person in the corner with a bunch of sleeve tattoo, you know, guys will rip your spine through your, you know, whatever. Like, that was just that's not who I am. But I still felt an unbelievable sense of belonging with the most amazing people.

Rob Huberty: 35:46

I would have made it a career, but the the bureaucracy is so defeating for someone like me. And if there's not a war, I'm someone who has to ask why. And it it became so debilitating at certain points when I think what we were doing was so unbelievably stupid and and potentially could cost lies. And I'd be like, why are we doing this? There's so many alternatives.

Rob Huberty: 36:14

I have better ideas that will work better that can do this if you let me do it. And they're like, you're in the military. And that was disheartening. And, like, you'd have admirals come in and be like, well, the new thing is this. And I understand why, but it just turns out that I was probably not good at that.

Rob Huberty: 36:29

Mhmm. And so if I saw that the the bureau like, even just the the a simple sign when I showed up to the team, you showed up to work in civilian clothes. That was it. If you were at work, civilian clothes. If you were training, cammies.

Rob Huberty: 36:48

I didn't put on a taped uniform that was, like, starched my first two years in. I was getting hazed all the time, but it was for war. The second one, we started wearing taped uniforms when you went to work. Like, it was like PT gear, actually, it was the next. You could you couldn't do civilian clothes, you could do PT gear.

Rob Huberty: 37:06

And they told you don't wear taped cammies, don't let anybody know who you are. And the second one towards the end, they were like, okay, taped cammies now, like, kinda, a little bit, mostly. My third one, it was, you know, we were in a new building that was beautiful, it was dress cammies at work every day. That's standard. It felt sterile.

Rob Huberty: 37:29

Right. And and and and seeing war is the only thing that matters to, like, my 3rd pump. I literally was training at Shaw's or something like that, and they they made me leave for, like, 6 hours to do a pee test. And I was incredulous. I was, like, you could pee time test me anytime you want.

Rob Huberty: 37:51

You're making me miss the most important training to me on something that is profoundly stupid. And you I I couldn't put those together. You like, if if you're, like, trying to catch somebody for drugs, if somebody's gonna do like, you can catch them anytime you want. You don't have to do it during, like, the most important blocks of work. And they're just like, they shake their shoulders and they're like, it's the military.

Rob Huberty: 38:18

And you're like, you didn't do this 4 years ago. You would you would never have done this 4 years ago, and they wouldn't. And and so I saw that. And, you know, I had a a profound desire to go to seal team 6. And, you know, I I feel like I I missed it, like the the timing of it.

Rob Huberty: 38:36

I feel like I wish I would have, on September 12th, dropped out of college. I graduated, And I wish that I would have dropped out then and I would have been in the window of it longer. Right? But it is what it is, and I think nobody can really control the time they went in and whatever. I I guess I could have dropped out of college again sooner.

Rob Huberty: 38:55

Like, I I guess that's a regret. But in 2014 when I got out, I just I feel like it was the right time. So I had I had orders to go to green team and, like, you know, try my hand at that, and I got into Wharton at the same time. I saw not a whole lot of war in front of me. I was 10 years in, and then my wife got pregnant.

Rob Huberty: 39:18

And so I know that being a family in the military is terrible. I wouldn't like what's for dinner. I would just be doing that, and it would be a job. And to me, being a seal was not a job. And the the compatible like, I joke when I say this, but I'm bad at having a boss because even, you know, I I went to Amazon afterwards and the this the same kind of questions arose.

Rob Huberty: 39:42

It was a very similar structure, and it's it's a it is an innovative company, but if you're around the wrong leadership, it becomes bureaucratic. And they're like, wow, our hands are tied. We can't do that. Our hands are tied. We can't do that.

Rob Huberty: 39:54

And the number of answers that I get with that, I get so frustrated that maybe I'm just bad at having a loss. And I I think the military, the the the impetus for getting out is a family, is the dying of the war, is the increase of bureaucracy, and, like, my incompatibility with all of those things. If I have a mission and I'm gonna put my life on the line for something that I find noble, I would have done it forever, but it's just not the reality of it to me. And, you know, luckily, we have people who are willing to stand on that line, who are whose tolerance for that is better and maybe they're more patriotic, better. We're fortunate to have those people, but it's just that that can't be me.

Rob Huberty: 40:36

I I I can't be in a uniform without a purpose, Giving my life away. 4525. No. It is just loud. It's loud.

Sam Alaimo: 40:54

I'm trying to think how we cut that because you're in the middle of a thought. You were just talking about Amazon. Correct?

Rob Huberty: 40:59

So the incompatibility with having you know, being bad at having a boss, wanting to stay in. Alright. So I think that you just go in next question that we can do it.

Sam Alaimo: 41:10

Alright. So we'll do 4630. Alright. So let's look at 2014 to 2018, the journey from Wharton to Amazon to founding ZeroEyes, but in the context of the transition out of the seal teams because they're all tied together. Right.

Sam Alaimo: 41:28

Can you can you weave that story?

Rob Huberty: 41:30

Yeah. So the you know, getting into a nice business school is great. And I was really excited, and I thought that they're gonna teach me something that was somehow unknowable in the same thing as, like, I'm still a fool and I fall for, you know, Bruce Lee and the touch of death in the mountains of Nepal. There's Shaolin monks that know something that no one else knows. I thought Wharton Business School and Finance knew something that, like, the world doesn't know, and that's why they're so good, and it's absolutely not true.

Rob Huberty: 41:58

Everything there can be learned at the University of Phoenix online. I sat in class looking at Investopedia. I saw really smart people who thought that it was a vacation going to business school. Like, the difficulty is getting in and then, like, the school itself, I found very difficult. I I totally threw myself in in the same way that I threw that in.

Rob Huberty: 42:22

You know, I was I think that my classmates were working 20 hours a week and I was working 60, and

Sam Alaimo: 42:27

I had

Rob Huberty: 42:27

kids, and it was really difficult for me. And I saw a lot of apathy and be like, oh, dude. I'm just gonna get a job at whatever. I don't even care about class, and I was I cared about class. And it was a lot of the things that when you learn the truth of what the business cases are and the reality of people who've done those jobs, like, it's not actually that difficult.

Rob Huberty: 42:51

And I didn't have kind of like a tribe there. Right? It was I went a 1000000 miles an hour, and I was training to go to green team. And in a very short window, I took, like, the the GMAT. Like, I I I didn't have enough time, so, like, I did it for, like, a 100 hours in a row.

Rob Huberty: 43:11

Like, basically a month, like, 4, 10 hours a day, I would study. And that's I had 30 days, and that was basically it. And then I got into school, but I I got in conditionally. So they they're like, you haven't taken a math course? Because I I switched from engineering to political science.

Rob Huberty: 43:27

And I was good at math, but I I did them in high school. And they're like, you haven't taken a calculus class since you were, like it's not on any college transcripts. It's not my high school transcripts. So they made me take calculus and stats course. So in the middle of transition, I had to take, like, online college courses, and so I did that for, like, you know, the same thing, 10 to 12 hours a day, I would take these courses so that I could like, I finished, you know, 3 month courses in, like, 30 days.

Rob Huberty: 43:56

And, like, the GMAT to this, the like, it it was so overwhelming, and then school was overwhelming too. And then I was like, well, what do you wanna do? And you're like, I don't even understand the question. What do you like? I don't understand the question.

Rob Huberty: 44:09

What do you mean what do I like? Well, what do you wanna do? Like, I don't know. And so, like, a a lot of business school was that. And luckily, like, there's a handful of, you know, soft like, there's another seal that I sat next to a glass like, dude, what are what are we doing here?

Rob Huberty: 44:24

And it was it was powerful to at least know that and be like, I don't even know what private equity is. Like, everybody like, I just kinda, like, nod and say yes. And I've read about it, and, like, I hear what people are saying or consulting. I don't really know what a consultant does. I thought they solved problems, but that's doesn't seem to be what they actually do.

Rob Huberty: 44:44

Like, that's the sales pitch, but the truth of it is different. Right? And the sales pitch of what private equity does is I I think the reality of that, what is said it is and what it really is. Like, I know what was said, and I have ideas, and I had met people who had done it. And as you're going through business school, I I found all of that pretty challenging.

Rob Huberty: 45:02

And to the point where, like, I I I think I had a distaste for it, but maybe it was unfair because I did I'd never done it before. And so going through school, I feel super detached from everything. And then I decided I wanted I thought Amazon was a really innovative company, really cool. And I ended up taking an internship in a warehouse at, like, their innovative thing. I went to Seattle because there's another seal who went to Wharton who's like, hey.

Rob Huberty: 45:28

This is really bad, but you'll be good at it. And, like, I'm gonna put you in a building that's innovative and cool. Cool. Awesome. I'm gonna do that.

Rob Huberty: 45:36

So I did, and I saw, this will sound arrogant, but a lack of leadership that I could provide that would have been empowering. And I was like, I could make a massive difference at Amazon by how people are treated and all these things that I've learned. Because I had gone, you know, my my military experience, there there was a lot of lows. You know? The the last deployment, you know, our commanding officer killed himself, and I was, like, in the room and, like, I wasn't in the room when he killed himself, but I saw the downfall.

Rob Huberty: 46:07

I saw, like, saw the lead up to it. Like, I was more than just like a fly on the wall like I was part of it and I knew what toxic leadership looked like I knew what good leaders and like in in profound ways where there's loss of life. And I was like, I could show up to that organization. I could be transformative. And then I learned that they don't care.

Rob Huberty: 46:27

And and I learned that most businesses don't care. You have to be good at the job itself for 20 years first before I think the leadership stuff matters. And that was disheartening. And you're like, I could make everybody better if you listen to me, and we're not gonna listen to you until, you know, like, the the most minute detail of this, and then maybe we'll promote you. And, you know, my 2nd year of business school, I ended up working at Amazon and doing that.

Rob Huberty: 46:53

And I I had a leader that was what I felt was very similar to the leader who killed himself. And you're like, this is very difficult to fix. And so I try to create a better environment for those who work under me. So, like, you eat the terrible, hostile stuff that they give you, and then you don't turn around and give it to your people. Like, you try to provide a better environment for them.

Sam Alaimo: 47:14

So how how did cofounding Zerez allow you to channel all of that transitioned all all of that transition from the seal teams, everything you learned from Amazon, everything from business school, and tie it all together?

Rob Huberty: 47:26

So the entire like, I had such strong opinions on how I thought the world should work and how business should work and all these lessons that I think I had learned. And I had organizations that were unwilling to accept me as a part of it. And it was, I don't know what emasculating. It was so disheartening, so depressing. And having, like, a big purpose and then going for a company that just doesn't care the things that you have and doesn't want it, and they're like, just fit our thing or we'll fire you.

Rob Huberty: 47:59

And then you're like, you're returning everything they want and more, and they don't even care. They're like, yeah. You're not doing it our way, though. And you're just like, I'm successful in the data. You say that you're data people, and I like, my data is great.

Rob Huberty: 48:13

They're like, we don't even care. I don't like your attitude. And you're like, I'm trying to transform thing and become more of them. They don't want it. So I was totally depressed, and I I didn't wanna wake up anymore.

Rob Huberty: 48:25

And then I was friends with you guys, and you were you we all had similar stories. And then, you know, there was an impetus, you know, hey. Do you wanna do this video analytics thing or whatever? And it was one of those things. I wanna work with people I care about, and I wanna solve a problem.

Rob Huberty: 48:40

And I don't care if it works or not. Like, I I need to put myself and devote myself to something that I care about with people I care about. And so I remember sitting in a car with you really early on, and you're like, this isn't gonna work. And I was like, you know what? I don't care.

Rob Huberty: 48:58

Like, I I I I'm so far down a rabbit hole of something that I I I genuinely hate. I felt like a TV that wasn't on a channel that just had fuzz every day of my life. I'd like I didn't feel things anymore. I could enjoy the good things. So founding this gave me an opportunity to do something that I cared about.

Rob Huberty: 49:23

And then really passionately, like the leadership, like, how do I how do I bring up a team and teach them the things that I think are important and do it in a way that I think with values that I have when, you know, there's a lot of really cool stuff at Amazon that's, like, based on, like, Jeff Bezos and then bastardized by a bunch of employees. And when I get to make those same rules that, like, his rules didn't make sense to like, some of them were, like, kinda crazy and I think wrong, but they worked for them. So we get to make those own rules in a way that makes sense to us in a manner that I want. It has been, like, soul affirming. It gives me purpose.

Rob Huberty: 50:00

I I couldn't care more about something. My stress, I think, has gone up, but my level of caring and my enjoyment of life are so profoundly different I've tried to solve a problem that matters to me, and then trying to do it with people that I love and care about. Like, I don't know. I don't know another way to be.

Sam Alaimo: 50:21

You made a comment that, like, I still think about on the similarities between how to make the perfect caffeinated beverage, how to smoke the perfect piece of meat, and how to run 0 eyes in an entrepreneurial VC backed tech company. Can you elaborate on the similarities between those?

Rob Huberty: 50:40

So everything that I've ever done in in my life to solve problems, I've AB tested everything. And I tell people I'm a knuckle dragging idiot. Like, I'm basically a moron, and I'm just kinda going through life by that way. I don't really think I'm a moron, but, like, I don't think that the way that you solve a problem in my life has ever been tied to writing a gigantic plan and then going through step 1 through 50 of this grand master thing that I've the only way I've done it is you make incremental changes and you see that it worked. And so it it literally started when was probably 13 years old, and I started, like, lifting weights.

Rob Huberty: 51:23

And seeing if I do curls on this day, because I was doing, like, the Arnold Schwarzenegger, like, I'm a pop culture person and, like, I started lifting weights in the way Arnold did, and, like, I would watch Rocky and, like, punch the punching bag. Like like, the dumbest stuff up, but it it kinda worked. And you would do training things and you'd you'd read about, you know, like, the boxers on how they would run and how they would do that. And as I got into wrestling, you like, what did Dan Gable do? And all these crazy things, and you try to combine it, and you try to be like, alright.

Rob Huberty: 51:54

What works for me? And so you create a workout program. And and somewhere I ended up years later, basically doing CrossFit before CrossFit started because I learned to be a better wrestler. Jack and Steel wasn't really as good as being able to, like, do push ups and pull ups and squats for, like, 20 minutes straight till you threw up in a trash can. Like, being able to do back squat what Arnold could did make you a better wrestler.

Rob Huberty: 52:21

And so I was like, okay. So AB test that. Which one works better? This, oh, this one works better. And and when you're 16 years old, almost anything you could do by the time you're 17 is going to have a profound effect.

Rob Huberty: 52:33

But you would get that data and that feedback loop and you're like, oh, my God, this is awesome. What if I'd start taking creatine? What if I have protein? What if I just eat only apples? And so I've just solved problems in that way the entire time.

Rob Huberty: 52:46

And when I make coffee, I do the same thing. What if I do 17 grams of water versus 1 gram of, you know, coffee? What if it's 16? What if it's 15? You start doing that.

Rob Huberty: 52:58

What about 205 for a temperature? What about 212? And you just play with it and play with it and play with it. And then you do a taste test, which one's better? And, you know, I grew up on video games and I would, like, build computers.

Rob Huberty: 53:12

Like, how do I make how do I win at this very hard game and you just trial and error at AB test AB test AB test. In the seal teams, it was the same thing, like, what shoes are the best shoes? What are this? What, like, you just nerd out about that and the feedback on a lot of the stuff is so quick that you're able to make determinations whether something is good or not. And when we're like, what do I know about AI?

Rob Huberty: 53:35

Well, I don't, but I know how to AB test. And so how do I solve problems? And, you know, I'm I'm about to be 43 here shortly. I grew up in a generation that I'm either the 1st year millennial or, like, the last year of Gen x and, like, I both of them don't quite feel right, and there's I've heard it referred to as the Oregon Trail generation of that era. I would go to school and on a 5 and a half floppy disk, a real floppy disk and an Apple 2 computer as, like, an educational thing, you'd play Oregon Trail.

Rob Huberty: 54:08

And I I remember before computers, and I know every single generation of, like, how we solve problems and how we use technology to solve problems. And if you AB test everything in your life, how do I how do I have, like, better skin care on my face? Well, if I do this, then this, then I would do, like it's exhausting, but how you start a company and if you a b test, it makes you look smart because it works. And I guess it's it's a it's a thing that, like, you can be not a genius and AB test really well. You don't need to have a 1600 score.

Rob Huberty: 54:39

You don't need to have the the highest volume. You just need to be able to be, like, is this better or is this better? Is this better or this better? And if if you can do that wholeheartedly and not be afraid to fail, it's unbelievable. So, like, if you if you can do basically, like, 3 things, accept failure and move on, experiment, and communicate well, I think that, like, you've just, like, you've unlocked the secret of life.

Rob Huberty: 55:05

We're all bad at all of those at different times. We become bad at experimenting. Accepting failure is always hard, but the beauty of the SEAL teams is when you have the most amazing people next to you and you're fighting for every inch, you're gonna fail all the time. If you AB test and, like, how do I compete with these people all the time? It's profound.

Rob Huberty: 55:27

Pick yourself up from every failure, experiment again and again, and then, like, communicate well of what you're doing, like, that's it. So going from how to make a perfect cup of coffee to how to make a startup that works, I think it's literally the same. That's how I view it in my mind, that my workout programs, how I dress, how I, you know, I don't even know how you brush your teeth. Like, how could I do a better job of brushing my teeth? How do I get this feedback?

Rob Huberty: 55:53

I used to give a lot of cavities. I don't get any cavities anymore, like, and you you follow that in. This doctor says this. This doctor says this. This podcast says this.

Rob Huberty: 56:01

This one said, like, everybody has different information, so you have to experiment yourself, which will work for me. And so if you want us to start an AI company, it's the same way of barbecue. A little bit is to make bad barbecue first and, like, come up with something that's embarrassing and then make it good.

Sam Alaimo: 56:20

Beautifully said. We're running up on time, so let's do some rapid fire questions. If you could have a conversation with anyone dead or alive, who would it be? One person.

Rob Huberty: 56:30

So I don't know. That's I I should have come more prepared. I think a Von Schwanter is pretty cool of starting Patagonia. Like, he would be cool. He's alive.

Rob Huberty: 56:39

And then historical figures, I mean, like, Jesus seems pretty cool. Like, hey, man. That'd be pretty neat. Talk to him.

Sam Alaimo: 56:47

If you can have a billboard with anything on it, what would it be?

Rob Huberty: 56:50

I I don't know. Like, what are you what are you gonna show people? I guess, I don't know. I mean, probably, I would want is it, like, if I would want 0 eyes to know people more of, like, what we're doing, that would be

Sam Alaimo: 57:01

Uh-huh.

Rob Huberty: 57:02

It would be about 0 eyes to spread the word.

Sam Alaimo: 57:04

Three books you think could change everybody's lives?

Rob Huberty: 57:07

I think the books that changed my lives, I don't know that this is you know, I'm there's basic things that did Atticus Finch, To Kill A Mockingbird, changed the way I saw the world when I was, you know, 12. I was, you know, in middle school. That had a profound impact on me. The, you know, it's it's almost lame to say, but Gates of Fire by Steven Pressfield. The warrior thing like that unlocked something in my soul when I was, you know, 20 years old.

Rob Huberty: 57:37

And I I don't necessarily know that I'm an advocate for him anymore, but the Malcolm Gladwell books of, like, blank, stuff like that. I I actually don't think they're super scientific, but when I was, you know, 20, 21 years old and you would read those, you're like, there's other ways to view this world, and how we make decisions and how we do this isn't that straightforward. And when you start thinking about those things, I think it's very interesting. But I I would say most more fiction than business or factual, but I'll go with To Kill A Mockingbird, Gates of Fire, and I'll say blink. I it's lame, but think differently.

Sam Alaimo: 58:16

Alright. And 3 movies do you think would change people's lives?

Rob Huberty: 58:20

I'm a big Lebowski super fan. I think that the pursuit of the pointless isn't pointless, and, you know, fun and goofy and and nice is is is pretty cool. I think that there's a message in that movie of, you know, the the the dao of the dude or whatever you wanna call it. Like, chill out and kind of enjoy this experience through some element of that. I don't know if that's gonna change your life, but it did for me.

Rob Huberty: 58:47

I think that there's some beautiful movies that that unlock something in me that when I viewed them had an emotional connection. For whatever reason, Marlon Brando and On the Waterfront is a movie that, like, I can never forget. It's about dock workers. It was about a certain time. It was about unions, a certain time in the United States.

Rob Huberty: 59:06

It's the one where he says I could have been a samba. I could have been a contender. I don't know. That's one that, like, I'll always love. And then kind of yearly, I watch 1 flew over the cuckoo's nest.

Rob Huberty: 59:17

And there's something about Jack Nicholson and all the people in that, you know, they're in you know, they're crazy. They're in, you know, and and to say the asylum and they're, you know, a mental hospital. And are they really crazy? And, like, how do you pursue your life? There's something about that movie that that's bigger than the movie itself to me.

Rob Huberty: 59:34

Okay.

Sam Alaimo: 59:35

That's all I got. You have anything you wanna add? I don't. Alright. Thank you, everybody.

Sam Alaimo: 59:39

Done so. That's it for this episode. If you wanna check out more from the podcast, head to zero eyes.com/nobell, where you can see show notes, read more about our guests, and suggest guests or topics of your own. Until next time. Stay in the fight.

Sam Alaimo: 59:56

Don't ring the bell.